Gordon Kirkmichael Tomintoul

[Darwin]

...I was looking at a transcript, so didn't see relationship. So, husband....then a Gordon married a Gordon?

Yes Lillas Gordon married a Charles Gordon (possibly a cousin)

[Darwin]

...aha...so the m-i-l was a Cameron......well, quite poss Janet was known as Jessie.

Yes it could have meant her MIL - did you say that this wasn't uncommon - ie to name the MIL as the mother?

[Darwin]

Something I just thought of - the marriage entry for Charles and Eslpet is 1816 is in the church at Kirkmichael - they were RC so is it possible that they were married previously in the RC chapel but that wasn't recognised so they had to marry again in the established church?

[scotmum]

I have instances in my own Scottish research where persons signing death certificates have done such, or even given a combination of part mother's name/part m-i-l's name, or otherwise. Have also found mistakes in fathers names at times too.  It really does depend on what the person signing knew of the deceased, and even then, given emotions at time, was still possible that they could mix up the info (especially if they could not read/write themselves and check what registrar had entered for them).

This site speaks of an 1828 and an 1836 Census in Kirkmichael (maybe by church ?).....perhaps worth contacting site owner for advise as to where they gleaned such info:

http://www.linleyfh.com/oursecondsite-p/p522.htm

also, another page from same site has some interesting info on area:

http://www.linleyfh.com/oursecondsite-p/pi6031.htm

I really have no idea if Catholic couples were required to undertake a marriage in the established Parish Church in timescale.....perhaps another member can help on this point.

[Darwin]

Many thanks for your help and also for the links - I'll try there and see if anything turns up - if it does, I'll post back here.

[MonicaL]

Hi Darwin

Have you thought to check the Will & Testament entry for Charles Gordon on SP to see whether there is any reference to likely daughter Ann:

Charles Gordon: 26/11/1851 ESQ., FARMER AT SAINT BRIDGET IN THE PARISH OF KIRKMICHAEL @ BANFF SHERIFF COURT - Ref: SC2/40/14

Later entry likely for son in law, also Charles Gordon in 1877.

Also, have you checked on the RC baptism register on SP to see who shows as sponsors on the baptisms for the children of Ann Gordon and James Fleming? I think I saw 6 entries showing for baptisms showing for them between 1833-50.

Do you know the names of Charles and Elspet's mothers to see whether that gives you any clues (might not be possible for Charles with his likely death in 1851).

Monica

[Darwin]

Thanks Monica

I'd already looked at both the wills and there's no mention of Ann.

I followed up your suggestion of looking at the RC records as I hadn't searched those before - I think they've been added since I was last on Scotland's People.

None of James and Ann's children are sponsored by Charles Gordon or his wife but interestingly, Charles' daughter Lillias' baptism was sponsored by James Fleming of Keppoch, who later became Ann's father in law.

The farms of St Bridget and Keppoch are neighbours.

I have a couple of other leads I'm following at the moment and I'll post anything of interest I find.

[Forfarian]

Something I just thought of - the marriage entry for Charles and Eslpet is 1816 is in the church at Kirkmichael - they were RC so is it possible that they were married previously in the RC chapel but that wasn't recognised so they had to marry again in the established church?

No. That was never necessary. You could be legally married without going anywhere near a church. All that was necessary was a declaration before witnesses that you were married, and a RC ceremony was perfectly valid.

The Church of Scotland was supposed to keep a record of all marriages and baptisms, including RC, Episcopal, and dissenting ones, but this didn't always happen in practice, and there are many missing from the records.

[Forfarian]

Could Ann Gordon who married James Fleming have been a younger sister or stepsister of Charles Gordon who married Elspet Stuart?