Gordon Kirkmichael Tomintoul

[icini]

Hello; I am interested in this thread due to the following names

Fleming and Mchardy

I have Robert Fleming (or Fleeming) married to Margaret Mchardy (or McCardie), Kirkmichael, Banff in 1758. their daughter Jane, ( Margaret) 1767-1857  married , Malom ( Malcolm), Clark, 1802 . children included Christin, Elspat and Margaret. Sorry for all the second names in brackets but depending on what certificate I look at the names do change.  Family ended up in Crathie And Braemar, Aberdeen.

ring any genealogy bells for anyone??  thanks.  Donna

[Darwin]

I have been following your posts with great interest as I am researching in this area too.

Donald Carmichael, whom you mentioned, was the priest in this parish from 1808-1838. The new Catholic Church in Tomintoul was completed in1839, just after he departed but while it was being built he conducted baptisms etc. at Cults, where he also farmed. Can you tell me how you got information from the Status Animarum? I think that could be my next step through my Tomintoul tangle!

I got the information from here: https://secure.moray.gov.uk/eshop/Moray-Heritage-Centre-p-1-c-3.html

They have a microfilm copy of the Status Animarum for Tomintoul for the years 1824, 1828 & 1836. I asked for specific information on certain names and places.

There are also Catholic baptism records on Scotland's People for that period and I found quite a few baptised by him. Good luck!

In addition to calling it the Chapel, I have also seen his farm Cults referred to as "The Priest's Room" as it seems he conducted much of his work there at that time, while the new one was being built. As an aside, Donald Carmichael's nephew Archibald married Christian Gordon, another descendent of Old Glenbucket. Her brother became a priest as did one of her sons, also Donald. There is an interesting exchange of letters between great uncle and nephew here:
http://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/E0020157X08000152

Who are you researching as I have a ton of records now and might have something helpful.

[Darwin]

Hello; I am interested in this thread due to the following names

Fleming and Mchardy

I have Robert Fleming (or Fleeming) married to Margaret Mchardy (or McCardie), Kirkmichael, Banff in 1758. their daughter Jane, ( Margaret) 1767-1857  married , Malom ( Malcolm), Clark, 1802 . children included Christin, Elspat and Margaret. Sorry for all the second names in brackets but depending on what certificate I look at the names do change.  Family ended up in Crathie And Braemar, Aberdeen.

ring any genealogy bells for anyone??  thanks.  Donna

I don't have a Robert Fleming at that time in my batch. My earliest Fleming ancestor is James, born about 1767, who farmed at Keppoch, Tomintoul. Unfortunately, I haven't found his baptism so I don't know about his parents.

[crombieburn]

Many thanks for posting links, Darwin53. I have been a regular on the Moray Libindx but did not realise they had copies of the Status Animarum. I also have a large collection of downloads from Scotlands People of baptisms in the area.

My main area of research has been the Stuarts/Stewarts, stonemasons in Tomintoul for at least three generations but in this process I have developed a wider interest in the history and people of the area, including Donald Carmichael. I was aware of "Letters to my Nephew" and was really pleased to be able to access them on line. Thank you!

At the moment I am trying to discover the generation before William Stuart (mason) and Ann Riach, who married at Cults in 1818. I have her parents as Elspet Grant and Donald Riach,Tomachlaggan, from her death certificate, but having difficulty with William. According to census information he seems to have died between 1841 and 1851. A Charles Stuart and Mary Smith in the Laggan of Croughly have a son William baptised in 1798 but there is also a James Stuart (a mason) and Janet McKenzie in Tomintoul in the 1780s. As William names his first son Peter perhaps I need to look for a Peter Stuart??

[Darwin]

This trail becomes more and more interesting as I follow it!

I've now made a definite link between Ann and her father Charles and he's the son of John Gordon of Glenbucket, who lived at St Bridget (Charles was his bastard son according to the baptism record but his only son - only child it seems - so he gets to carry on the farm at St Bridget and his mother Lillias McHardy lived there too as recorded in the Status Animarum). Lillias is accorded the status of Glenbucket's wife in a Victorian monument in Kirkmichael church but I haven't found a record of a marriage so the inscription might have been incorrect - no matter - Charles was recorded as his son.

John Gordon of Glenbucket's grandmother was Ann Lindsay, daughter Sir Alexander Lindsay of Evelick (a baronet). Taking his trail back, I find he's directly descended from Alexander Lindsay of Evelick, Bishop of Dunkeld. He's directly descended from Alexander Lindsay, 2nd Earl of Crawford, whose mother was Elizabeth Stewart, whose father was Robert II Stewart, King of Scotland, whose grandfather was Robert I Bruce, King of Scotland.

Now at this point, I laughed out loud! Well you would, wouldn't you!

It seems hilarious to me but one of my Scots Aunts has been telling me for years that her mother always said she was directly descended from Robert the Bruce. We've always just taken it as something lots of people say - family folklore etc but it looks like she might have actually been basing it on evidence!

What do you folks think? Does this look like evidence to you? I have some links I could share - I think my evidence needs testing rigorously...

[KL2AUS]

I picked up this thread doing a general search and thought I could add a little to the picture for you.

The James Fleming you mention living at Keppoch is my great by 5 grandfather.  His daughter Janet was the spouse of Charles McGregor who was the Tacksman of a farm named Delavorar which is close by Keppach (or Keppoch as it is often written).
 
Re:the marriage record you have of the marriage between James Fleming and Ann Cameron. 

James' father James Cameron was married to Janet Cameron (the missing name). Their children in order of birth were Janet, Jean (Jane), James, Elizabeth (Elspet), Angus and Robert.

The Robert McGregor of Delavorar is the younger brother of Charles (above) and therefore BIL of Janet and Robert her brother.  Charles died in 1831 and Janet in 1889.  Their four children were born in the 1820s so would have been first cousins of the children born to James and Anne Gordon.

I haven't done a focused search on the Camerons and Flemings (yet) so have no other information for them before that noted here.  I am currently transcribing BMDs for Tomintoul in an effort to untangle all the related families (as well as the various spellings e.g. Fleeming !!).  I may get there one day!

I hope this adds a little to your picture of the community that was heavily interrelated!  In fact we may find that Janet Cameron (my great by 5 grandmother) was another Glenbucket relative as ties between families were often cemented through marriage. There is also McHardy links by marriage through Charles' grandmother.  Her sister married a McHardy.

Darwin, I am also curious about the photo of Lily Mcgregor you use.  Any chance this lady married into the same McGregor family ?

[Darwin]

Lovely news for me (and my cousin!).

I knew James' mother was called Janet Cameron from other sources so the blank is just a reflection of what the record looked like. I have lots of records of the Flemings, including all the children's baptisms etc so I'm happy to share what I have that you might not have yet.

However, I don't have the other information that you have about those McGregors or Camerons. I haven't followed my McGregor line back very far because it ends with a reputed father called John McGregor and he could be one of many.

I'd be very interested in anything you find about the Camerons as we haven't followed Janet Cameron back any further.

I also have a photo of James and Janet's gravestone that I took in Tomintoul catholic churchyard. I'll upload it later today as they are your ancestors too.

Lovely to "meet" you. 

[Darwin]

Here it is - you should be able to download it and zoom to read it - let me know if you can't as I have a transcript.

[KL2AUS]

Great to meet you as well.

Well I got a bit of a thrill when I read your reply.  Your John McGregor may bring us a few generations closer than you realise.  It's going to send me trawling throught the copious amount of McGregor genealogy records I have.  You see the Charles McGregor I mentioned had 3 sons, James , John and Peter.  I decend from James and I have traced Peter and am in touch with his decendants.  I have a great pile of information on 'Johns' but like you was never 100 per cent sure which one was the right one.  Any information you can share would be GREATLY appreciated as it will narrow down the possibilities.  I am very happy to share any information that will help you as well as spend the time chasing the John connection, if there is one.  

Picture just came in thank you