Author Topic: Help with third page of 1558 will please  (Read 4085 times)

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 11 July 10 23:23 BST (UK) »
line 6 , I think it says Hinton Amerall and should be Hinton Admiral.  If you google for "hinton admiral" +machell it mentions this bequest to Thomas and tells a bit of the later history of the property.

Roger

Offline BridgetM

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 11 July 10 23:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Roger!  I googled "hinton admiral" +machell and found the British History Online entry. 

I also found an Index to Chancery Proceedings 1579-1621, which listed John Machell, Plaintiff, Mathew Machell, Defendant, and these properties: Guilden, Sutton, and Burneside, manors of London, Tottenham, Hatfield, Hinton Admiral, Sandbach, Holmes Chapel and Goostrey.

(How did you know to google Hinton Admiral ???)

Bridget

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #11 on: Monday 12 July 10 17:53 BST (UK) »
Bridget, I think I remembered it from childhood ! I was born in Hampshire (aka County of Southampton), and Hinton Admiral was the name of a station on the railway line to Bournemouth where we often went for holidays. In recent years I discovered that one of my 3xgrandfathers was a farmer at Hinton (without the Admiral, but less than a mile away) in 1841.

Roger

Offline Geoff_B

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 17 September 14 09:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Bridget
Re the last line of part 1 , page 3:  I suspect that this is 'St Michael le Querne' which is a parish in the city of London (it was also called St Michael ad Bladum).

I am new to Rootschat - this is my first post so I trust that I'm not breaching protocol!  But in replying, I very much hope you may be able to throw some light on any connection between the Machells and my antecedents, the Bold family (of Lancashire/Cheshire and Hampshire).

My own connection to the Machell family is with Julyan (Juliane) Machell who was the wife of William Bold, of Petersfield, Hampshire.  She was born in around 1505, the daughter of Giles Machell.  Giles was the Mayor of Petersfield in 1517 and died there in 1521; his will (dated 26 April 1521) indicated that he was survived by 4 children: John, Leonard, Robert and Julyan, (which the will spelt as Gelyan - the wife of William).  Julyan also had a brother, John who died in 1522 leaving a will in which he named her as ‘Juliane, the sister wife of William Boold’.

It seems highly likely that Giles was the son of John Machell, born about 1440 (= Ruth Wharton) of Crackenthorpe, Westmoreland.  William’s wife was likely to have been named after her Aunt  (Julyen, nee Leyborne) the wife of Giles’ brother, Hugh.  The fact that Hugh had a brother, Guy who had a son that he named Gyllys (ie Giles), gives support to this hypothesis.

From my research I believe that ‘my’ William Bold was born around 1475, the Son of Sir Henry Bold (1448 – 1497) of Bold Hall, near Widnes, Lancashire.  John Machell evidently had close links with the Bold family and, although he moved south from Westmoreland to London, also held land in both Lancashire and Cheshire.  My guess is that this was inherited from his father.

One of Sir Henry Bold’s granddaughters,  Elizabeth married Matthew Chase of the manor of Chesham – next door to the John Machell’s manor at Wendover.  John Machell also had a very close association with Philip Bold (a grandson of Sir Henry) who succeed him  the very next year both as Warden and Master of the Clothworkers Company.   And he shared the office as Sheriff of London with Sir Thomas Leigh [Legh] who married Sir Henry’s Sister in law.

I would be most grateful to learn of any information that you may have (or sources that you may have identified) regarding the Machell lineage between about 1440 and 1550 and particularly any connections they may have had with the Bold or interests in Lancashire, Cheshire and Hampshire.


Offline BridgetM

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 17 September 14 12:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff,

I don't know if you're using the Machell pedigree drawn by Bellasis or the one by Poulson (or even the one by Harriet deSalis), but they all have a number of mistakes.  For the past 3 years, another Machell descendant and I have been deconstructing Bellasis's pedigree (which has the fewest mistakes of all the pedigrees).  We have copies of all the Machell deeds in the Carlisle Record Office, as well as copies of all the relevant pages in the Machell Manuscript, and have ordered all the relevant deeds from The National Archives.  My dining room is now a Machell Muniment Room!

We have the wills of Giles (1521), and John (1522), and also Robert (1574), who is perhaps a son of Giles.  (His son is called Giles.) 

BUT, we are not sure what the connection is between Giles Machell and John Machell, Sheriff and Alderman of London.  We do know (and have proved) that John Machell is NOT the son of Hugh Machell, as Poulson asserts.

Bridget

Offline Geoff_B

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 17 September 14 15:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Bridget,
Thanks for replying so quickly.  I have a copy of the Bellasis pedigree but was unaware of those by Poulson or de Salis.  My guess is that Giles was the son of John = Ruth Wharton; have you discounted that?  I agree that his father was not Hugh – I would have though Giles to be too old to be his sibling – and it doesn’t fit with Giles’ daughter being named for his Brother’s wife.

Re-reading my post, I realise that I mistakenly said Giles was the Mayor of Petersfield.  He wasn’t !  In fact this was Henry Abarrow who died in 1517 leaving a widow, Maud. 
Maud died a year or two after her Husband.  She left a Will in August 1517 that made bequests to her three children: Jane her daughter and Gyles and John her Sons. She also leaves instructions for some of her goods to be used to best effect for her children the care of which she entrusts to William Radford (of North Charford – the family seat of the Abarrows) and to Gyles Machell of Petersfield.

As you know, Gyles Machell himself died a couple of years later - in 1521 - also his Will transfers guardianship of the children to his Daughter, Gelyan (Julyan) then the Wife of William Bold.

This suggests a close link between the Bold, Machell and Abarrow familes (not least because Giles was a relatively uncommon name).  Total speculation (!) but perhaps Henry Abarrow’s wife Maud was a Machell……

Another coincidence that I have yet to understand is that my William Bold purchased land in Petersfield from George Rythe and Thomas Gantham (both lawyers of Lincolns Inn and later MPs).  The same George Rythe sold land to John Machell: ‘1552 - John Fitz-William, Elizabeth his wife and George Rythe, esq., and Elizabeth his wife passed by fine to John Machell, citizen and cloth worker of London, the manor of Burnedshed alias Burnyshed and tenements and rents in Burnyshed, [presumably Burnside?] Strikland Ketyll, Strikland Roger and Kendall.’

Offline BridgetM

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 17 September 14 22:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff,

I've sent you a private message. 

Bridget

Offline curry

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 28 September 17 17:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff,
I have only just registered with RootsChat and am finding my way around. I am descended from Aburrows (Abarrowes) in the Petersfield area of Hampshire and was interested in your comments about Henry Abarrow.
I have a copy of Maud Abarrow's will of 1517 in which she is described as Henry's widow. What is the source of your information about Henry being Mayor of Petersfield? I hadn't come across that before.
You mention that William Radford is an executor of her will and give him as 'of North Charford'. I know that the Abarrows were long established at North Charford but I think the wording in Maud's will gives William Radford as parson of Clanfyld (Clanfield just south of Petersfield).

Any help gratefully received.

Offline Kaz-

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Re: Help with third page of 1558 will please
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 30 September 17 13:55 BST (UK) »
St Michaell at Quene hithe (Queenhithe) is my reading.