Author Topic: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777  (Read 13825 times)

Offline tkgafs

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 04 July 17 11:32 BST (UK) »
Further information on this

There is a small paragraph in the Dundee Evening Post - Wednesday 30 December 1903 under the heading News of the Day stating that

Mr Cunningham Rae, Crofthead Kirkcudbright the oldest person in the district has just died in his 99th year. He was a member of a family whose longevity was somewhat remarkable, his father having reached the patriarchial age of 102 years

Offline margaret1

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 19 November 20 05:13 GMT (UK) »
I'm searching for a birth/baptism for William Rae in Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland about 1851.

William married Isabella Cannell on 5 Jun 1879 in Rushen Isle of Man. Her parents were Thomas Cannell and Elizabeth Costain. On the Isle of Man, Marriage Index, 1606-1984 William's father is transcribed as Cunningham Roe. William died in 1932 in Arbory Isle of Man aged 81 years.

On Isle of Man Censuses 1871 - 1911 his place of Birth was recorded as either Kirkcudbrightshire,  Kirkcudbright or Scotland.

I strongly suspect that William's parents were Cunningham Rae (1808 - 1903) and Grace Logan (Abt. 1895 - 1895). William and Isabella's eldest daughter was named Grace Elizabeth Rae and they also has a son Cunningham Thomas Rae, if this helps.

Margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,587
  • Never trust anything you find online .....
    • View Profile
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith


Offline margaret1

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 21 November 20 04:13 GMT (UK) »
I have just finished searching all church registers on ScotlandsPeople site for a baptism/birth for William Rae selecting all parishes and counties and using all search options. I also searched the statutory register of births.  I found  birth/baptisms for all six of William's siblings registered 1849 - 1867, all in Kirkcudbright, however William wasn't there  :(. I had the same result using the FamilySearch site.

I'm not sure where to go from here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Margaret
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,587
  • Never trust anything you find online .....
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 21 November 20 09:12 GMT (UK) »
If you have thoroughly searched Scotland's People and found nothing, the overwhelming likelihood is that the record of William's baptism, if it ever existed, has not survived.

If it's not on Scotland's People then, realistically, it is not going to be on FamilySearch (or on any of the commercial web sites) because they only have indexes to the originals, all of which are on Scotland's People.

You do, from time to time, find so-called 'records' on, for example, FamilySearch, which are just guesses based on a different record and various assumptions, for example they might have found a marriage, and they invent a birth 25 years earlier for the groom and 21 years earlier for the bride.

There is an outside chance that there might be a stray register that escaped in 1855 when all the Church of Scotland registers were collected by the Registrar General. Or that there might be a surviving register of a dissenting church that has not been digitised because permission to do has not not been forthcoming from the congregation that owns it. Or there might be a register of the Episcopal Church lurking somewhere in a kirk or in an archive somewhere. But it's very unlikely, and it is going to be extremely difficult to find and check even the very small number of such registers that do exist.

So I think that you may have to accept that William is one of the large numbers of people (some say as many as 30% around 1800) whose baptism is not there to be found.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Neale1961

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 21 November 20 09:49 GMT (UK) »
I notice for the baptism of William’s sister, Margaret - Kirkcudbright 00/00/1852, there is a note on the index in Scotlands People. It says “year assumed”
From that, I understand that there is some problem with the original document. Maybe it is too damaged to read, or there are pages missing, that makes SP have to guess the date. Since We would expect William to be around the 1852-53 date, it might be that his record has succumbed to whatever the problem is.
I suppose you could try asking SP for more information about their comment on Margaret’s record?

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,587
  • Never trust anything you find online .....
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 21 November 20 10:52 GMT (UK) »
You could just look at the original and see for yourself what the problem is, of course.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline margaret1

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 21 November 20 19:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Forfarian for your comprehensive reply which has been most helpful. I agree, it appears highly unlikely that the birth or baptism record will be found. Never mind.  :(

Neale1961, you may be onto something here thanks for pointing this out - I have sent SP a message however, I may have to eventually view the original as Forfarian suggests.

Margaret.
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

ARCHIBALD/ADAMS/BROWN/GORDON/WILSON/Midlothian
CADDY/COPPIN/GEDYE/GIDDEY/GIDDY/GROWDEN/KITT/OLIVER/THOMAS/Cornwall
CAREY/France/Kent/NZ 
CARMICHAEL/GRAHAM/CRAMB/STEWART/Perth
CLOUGH/Lancs/Yorks/NSW
CORNWELL/Kent/NSW 
EATON/Lon/NSW    
MALYON/Mdx  
MATTHEWS/Lon/Sry/Oxf/Glouc/NSW
McLEOD/THOMSON/E Lothian
QUINN/Kilkenny
TUCK/HART/Mdx/Esx
VICCARS/ Lond/Northamps/Hunts
WATSON/Down

Offline Neale1961

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
Re: Info needed Cunningham Rae / Agnes Duncan married 12th Oct 1777
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 22 November 20 07:45 GMT (UK) »
I think the assumption made by SP that Margaret’s baptism was 1852, is not correct.
According to census data, William was born about 1852, and Margaret came after him, about 1854.
That makes me wonder if (rather than damage), there are pages missing from the original register, so it makes the dates impossible to confirm.

But by checking the other names on the same page as Margaret against the census, one should be able to come up with a firm year.