John JONES, Cadoxton juxta Neath

[yattonharry]

My gt grandfather was a William JONES,a Stone Mason/Contractor Builder, born possibly about 1843 in Ystalyfera,Neath. On his marriage certificate August 20, 1873,Carmel Chapel, Pontypridd, to Ffryswith Elizabeth Davies, aged 21 years, spinster, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth [Bevan] Davies, father Coal miner [but later, Innkeeper and owner of the Dunraven Hotel, Tonypandy] William aged 28, batchelor, a Stone Mason says that his deceased father was John JONES a Woodman of Neath. Both the bride and groom give their residence as Pandy, Rhondda Valley.

William moved from his place of birth to Tonypandy and was involved with the building in the new village of Trealaw. William died 29 Jun 1894 at 112 Miskin Rd., Trealaw, Rhondda, Glam. He is buried at Zoar Baptist Chapel, Penygraig, Rhondda, Glam

The Obituary of William and Ffryswith's daughter Mary Jane THOMAS who died 17 Apr 1936 shows that there were many named JONES from Pontadawe who came to her funeral. I enquired of my mother’s cousins about these people and was told that these came from Pontadawe, Trebanos and Ystalyfera, all in the same area.

Dates from census and certs.
1894 at death on 28 June is 51
1894 Tombstone is 51 [b then 1843]
1891 Wm says he is b 1845 [46] a Mason b Ystalyfera;
1881 b 1846 [35] b.Neath;
1873 at marriage he is 28 b 1845;
1871 b 1846 b Ystalyfera;
===
Family have told me [ now all dead]  "a relative Maggie Jones Ystradowen, School teacher Ystalyfera County School. Lived in
Railway Tce Ystradwen with her blind brother Dick"
Also that the family kept the 'Smith Arms' Pontadawe [ I think the place was]

Thank you for any clues you can throw my way. I now live in Oxfordshire and it is most difficult to research in Wales, where I was born and brought up.

Jill

[hanes teulu]

yattonharry,
1861 Census
John Jones, Head, 60, Woodcutter
Gwenllian Jones, Wife, 52
Morgan Jones, Son, 25, Labourer
Jenkin Jones, Son, 23, Smith
William Jones, Son, 20, Mason
Mary Jones, Dau, 16
John Jones, Son, 10
All born Cadoxton, address Cray Forest Cottage, Kilybebill

1851 Census
John Jones, Head, 48, Woodman
Gwenllian Jones, Wife, 46
Morgan Jones, Son, 15, Scourer at Tin Works
Jenkin Jones, Son 14, Scourer at Tin Works
William Jones, Son, 11,
Rees Jones, Son, 8
Mary Jones, Dau, 6
John Jones, Son, 11mths
All born Cadoxton juxta Neath, address Danyrawel, Cadoxton juxta Neath

1841
John Jones, 40, Farmer
Gwenllian Jones, 30
Morgan Jones, 5
Jenkin Jones, 4
William Jones, 10 mths
All born in County (Glam), address Brynryg, Cadoxton, Dylais Higher (part of)

These lead to a William Jones on the 1871 Census
William Jones, Lodger, married, 25, Mason, b. Ystalyfera.

and at the same household/address
Ffryswith Davies, Dau, Unmarried, 16, Housemaid, b. Ystradfodwg

Do you have any information about a possible earlier marriage for your William? William's age of 25 on the census, and later declarationss,  might have something to do with Ffryswyth's tender years?

regards
 

[yattonharry]

Thank you for confirming my findings. That is such a a great help. There is no evidence of William marrying earlier but family lore, without knowledge of any documents told me that the brides' parents were not in favour of the marriage as he was older. I can see now, something I had overlooked and that she was only 19 when she married, but said 21. Oh dear!  Her birthday was 05 Jun 1854.

If I have a wrong 'marriage' it may well be the father's. I wonder if he could have married twice both to lasses called Gwenllian?

Very many thanks for the help.

Jill

[hanes teulu]

The William Jones on the 1841 Census is described as "10 mths old". The Census was taken 6/7 June 1841. This would put Williams birth about Aug-Oct 1840. The birth might have been registered in the Dec1840 or Mar 1841 Quarter. FreeBMD has

William Jones, Dec 1840, Neath 26 394
    "          "        "       "         "     26 398
    "          "        "       "         "     26 401
    "          "        "       "         "     26 383

William Jones, Jan 1841, Neath 26 473
     "         "        "      "         "      26 473
     "         "        "      "         "      26 475
     "         "        "      "         "      26 470

You can send an enquiry to the Register Office (Neath/Portalbot?) giving Williams details + parents names and the office should search for the relevant entry.  An alternative to sending for GRO certs.

No guarantee your William is one of these and you can expand the reg quarters around this time.

regards      
 
          

[hanes teulu]

Who were William + Ffrystwyth's witnesses?

I have alread mentioned the marriage of John Jones + Gwenllian Morgan - married Cadoxton juxta Neath (St Catwg) 1837. Gwenllian's maiden name might be reflected in her eldest son Morgan?
At the time I only checked the Glam FHS transcribed entry. Next week will check for actual Parish Register entry.

regards

regards

[yattonharry]

Hi,
I am such an idiot! I had seen that 'married' on the 1871 census and honestly I should have known better, but I decided!! that it was an enumerator's error! How stupid.  So yes, this looks just like my guy and he seemingly had been married before and his wife died probably in childbirth.

He has to have been married between the 1861 census when he is at home and 1871/2 when he is with my family in the Rhondda. Good Lord that was soon. Going to check their 1st child's date of birth.

The Witnesses at their wedding were: Thomas Davies [ I have assumed this was her brother] and Jane Davies [could be a friend/cousin as apparently Thomas did not marry and died early in life].

I agree about the Gwenllian Morgan as a mother's surname, that looks very possible.

The Birth certificate that I hold for William shows:
18 July 1840 at Brynmig, Dylais Higher, Cadoxton | William | Boy | John Jones [father] | Gwenllian JONES formerly CURTIS | Farmer | The mark of Gwenllian Jones Mother Brynmig, Dylais Higher | 26 August 1840 | Evan Thomas Registrar |

My grateful thanks,

Jill

[yattonharry]

Just read their Marriage Certificate more thoroughly. William Jones = Friswith [sic] Davies by LICENCE - before me David Powell Registrar
x The Mark of William Jones | Friswith signed.

Jill

[hanes teulu]

yattonharry,
checked the Parish marriage record of John Jones and Gwenllian Morgan on 15th may 1837 Cadoxton. Noted that the witnesses were William Curtis and Catherine Davies.

Found a Parish marriage of Catherine Curtis and David Davies 1 Feb 1833 Cadoxton - possible link?. In this instance the witnesses were Harriet and John Harries.

Can provide copies of both marriages if relevant

regards 

[yattonharry]

That is so very kind of you to check these for me.

I would be very pleased to have the copies of those marriages please?

Jill