Author Topic: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?  (Read 16264 times)

Offline Martin Briscoe

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • J W L BRISCOE 72nd Highlanders
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 13:13 GMT (UK) »
I have had another reply on Ship Nostalgia from  C R Scruby who was on the SAGAING, trying to get an EMail address.



BRISCOE - Bolton, Heaton Norris, Rochdale, Oldham, Chadderton, Blackburn
POUNDER - Middleton Tyas, Kirkbymoorside, Stokesley, Lambeth, Bolton, Newcastle on Tyne, Leeds
HAMMOND - Quebec, Laverton, Masham, Grantley
SWALES - Laverton, Masham
O'Shea - Quebec
PARRY - Caerhun, Deiniolen, ClwtyBont, Brynrefail, TalySarn, Brynrefail, Bethesda
EVANS - Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, Maesmynis, Dowlais, Stockton on Tees, Hartlepool, Trealaw
HARVEY - Trentham, Sheriffhales, Llanfyllin, Llanferres, Minera

Offline Martin Briscoe

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • J W L BRISCOE 72nd Highlanders
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 14:02 GMT (UK) »
I can't find an Admiralty War Diary entry for the SAGAING on 19.10.39 but there is this on 18.10.39 (from FOLD3)

Quote
Ships attacked
SAGAING escaped

0653
SS SAGAING chased by s/m SSSS 46° 17'N. 13° 12' W.

0738
SS SAGAING another s/m appeared 46° 19' N. 13° 0' W.

0844
SS GARTERATTAN (1800 tons) chased by s/m SSSS 46° 30' N. 12° 46' W.  Escaped.  This was also attacked next day.

For both the above ships see M.012914/39 Report by Master of SS. BRITISH CAPTAIN on s/m attacks on Convoy H.G. 3.

BRISCOE - Bolton, Heaton Norris, Rochdale, Oldham, Chadderton, Blackburn
POUNDER - Middleton Tyas, Kirkbymoorside, Stokesley, Lambeth, Bolton, Newcastle on Tyne, Leeds
HAMMOND - Quebec, Laverton, Masham, Grantley
SWALES - Laverton, Masham
O'Shea - Quebec
PARRY - Caerhun, Deiniolen, ClwtyBont, Brynrefail, TalySarn, Brynrefail, Bethesda
EVANS - Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, Maesmynis, Dowlais, Stockton on Tees, Hartlepool, Trealaw
HARVEY - Trentham, Sheriffhales, Llanfyllin, Llanferres, Minera

Offline gilleanf

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 14:39 GMT (UK) »
I have been fascinated by the gravestone for Peggy James and her daughters for a number of years, since I first visited the cemetery. On a recent visit I decided that I really must find out more about the family and the Sagaing, for a friend who is writing a book with a chapter in it that is about the area.
I found the family on the 1939 Sagaing passenger list but also on two other passenger lists; one coming from Montreal to Liverpool (previous place of permanent residence China) in August 1936 and then the family departing Liverpool on 30 January 1937 destination Hong Kong. I am presuming it is the same family on both occasions, as the names are correct and the girls are the correct ages, but the father is a Francis P R James, Civil Servant, not Jack. Was he just known as Jack because he didn't like being called Francis?
Does anyone know why the headstone to Peggy, Patricia and Jacqueline was erected at Skerray? Did they have family connections in that area?
Any information would be much appreciated.
Gillean

Offline Martin Briscoe

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • J W L BRISCOE 72nd Highlanders
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 14:52 GMT (UK) »
I have been fascinated by the gravestone for Peggy James and her daughters for a number of years, since I first visited the cemetery. On a recent visit I decided that I really must find out more about the family and the Sagaing, for a friend who is writing a book with a chapter in it that is about the area.
I found the family on the 1939 Sagaing passenger list but also on two other passenger lists; one coming from Montreal to Liverpool (previous place of permanent residence China) in August 1936 and then the family departing Liverpool on 30 January 1937 destination Hong Kong. I am presuming it is the same family on both occasions, as the names are correct and the girls are the correct ages, but the father is a Francis P R James, Civil Servant, not Jack. Was he just known as Jack because he didn't like being called Francis?
Does anyone know why the headstone to Peggy, Patricia and Jacqueline was erected at Skerray? Did they have family connections in that area?
Any information would be much appreciated.
Gillean

If you read through the thread there are a couple of posts from people with knowledge of the incident.

I also posted on SHIPNOSTALGIA and had a reply from someone who was on board the vessel as a child and had played with the family.  If you register for the site then you should be able to send him a message.



BRISCOE - Bolton, Heaton Norris, Rochdale, Oldham, Chadderton, Blackburn
POUNDER - Middleton Tyas, Kirkbymoorside, Stokesley, Lambeth, Bolton, Newcastle on Tyne, Leeds
HAMMOND - Quebec, Laverton, Masham, Grantley
SWALES - Laverton, Masham
O'Shea - Quebec
PARRY - Caerhun, Deiniolen, ClwtyBont, Brynrefail, TalySarn, Brynrefail, Bethesda
EVANS - Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, Maesmynis, Dowlais, Stockton on Tees, Hartlepool, Trealaw
HARVEY - Trentham, Sheriffhales, Llanfyllin, Llanferres, Minera


Offline Martin Briscoe

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • J W L BRISCOE 72nd Highlanders
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 15:06 GMT (UK) »
Have you thought of trying the newspaper for that area?

Northern Times

This might be able to make a story out of it and it could bring up some local information? 

There are quite a few very local newsletters that just circulate around a small area but you would need to ask somewhere near there if anything - the nearest library might have suggestions - Bettyhill.

It's an intriguing story, when I photographed the headstone I looked it up when I got home but never thought it would be so complicated!

BRISCOE - Bolton, Heaton Norris, Rochdale, Oldham, Chadderton, Blackburn
POUNDER - Middleton Tyas, Kirkbymoorside, Stokesley, Lambeth, Bolton, Newcastle on Tyne, Leeds
HAMMOND - Quebec, Laverton, Masham, Grantley
SWALES - Laverton, Masham
O'Shea - Quebec
PARRY - Caerhun, Deiniolen, ClwtyBont, Brynrefail, TalySarn, Brynrefail, Bethesda
EVANS - Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, Maesmynis, Dowlais, Stockton on Tees, Hartlepool, Trealaw
HARVEY - Trentham, Sheriffhales, Llanfyllin, Llanferres, Minera

Offline gilleanf

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 15:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Martin.
I will keep searching.

Offline robertloakes

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Gillean
Hi my name is Robert Loakes. You will have probably read my post on jack James and hist wife and daughters who died on the Sagaing.
Can I help in any other way?
I am confused why you think that Jack James was called Francis. What information do you have on that?
Jack James was in the Army in late 1939 in India with his wife and 2 children. At the outbreak on the war they had to return to the UK. He was on 1 boat and his wife and 2 children were on the Sagaing. They were lost overboard near Cornwall as were many others during a 'expected' submarine attack.

I don't mind giving an email address if it helps as I could give you some more information.

Regards
Robert

Offline gilleanf

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 18:17 GMT (UK) »
Hello Robert,
I should appreciate an email address and then we can look at the info I have found and compare notes before I post anything else on the subject.
This is a fascinating story, and a bit of a mystery as there seems to be two families with the same names!
Best regards,
Gillean

Offline Martin Briscoe

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • J W L BRISCOE 72nd Highlanders
    • View Profile
Re: TORRISDALE BURIAL GROUND - Peggy James?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 18:21 GMT (UK) »
Hello Robert,
I should appreciate an email address and then we can look at the info I have found and compare notes before I post anything else on the subject.
This is a fascinating story, and a bit of a mystery as there seems to be two families with the same names!
Best regards,
Gillean

Could be worse, I came across two brothers with the same name who were Killed in Action in the same battle in WWI.  Didn't half confuse the Army Records Office!

BRISCOE - Bolton, Heaton Norris, Rochdale, Oldham, Chadderton, Blackburn
POUNDER - Middleton Tyas, Kirkbymoorside, Stokesley, Lambeth, Bolton, Newcastle on Tyne, Leeds
HAMMOND - Quebec, Laverton, Masham, Grantley
SWALES - Laverton, Masham
O'Shea - Quebec
PARRY - Caerhun, Deiniolen, ClwtyBont, Brynrefail, TalySarn, Brynrefail, Bethesda
EVANS - Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, Maesmynis, Dowlais, Stockton on Tees, Hartlepool, Trealaw
HARVEY - Trentham, Sheriffhales, Llanfyllin, Llanferres, Minera