Author Topic: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?  (Read 9383 times)

Offline kitchensink

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« on: Tuesday 03 August 10 22:07 BST (UK) »
I have been stuck for some time now tracing my family and have joined this forum to see if anyone can help...
Thomas Perrin married Frances Bingley in St George's, Hanover Sq, London in 1804. I cannot find clues to his parents or immediate family and have only found 2 children.  From about 1730 the 'Perrin' name started to move into the Westminster area of London, does anybody know if there is a Huguenot link here?

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 August 10 23:20 BST (UK) »
Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

A Dictionary of British surnames by PH Reaney places the Perrin surname well back into the C13th in origin in this country - originally Perre (Peter)

The Hugeunot surname given is Perowne


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kitchensink

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 09:50 BST (UK) »
Hi Valda - My thoughts along the Huguenot line are these:

Daniel 'Perrin' was a famous early Huguenot settler in New York
French birth details are coming up when searching for 'Thomas Perrin' on ancestry

Of course there could be English roots but these 'Perrins' all appear in London around 1730.


Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 12:06 BST (UK) »
Hi

Throughout London's history the city has needed the daily arrival of new blood into the capital for it to continue to thrive and grow. London offered great opportunities but the price could be high as mortality rates in the city were also high. In consequence most peoples' family's history will not trace back as many generations in London as they might expect. Once an ancestor does not live until a census with a given a birthplace and does not have a particularly unusual surname it can be difficult to prove their origins - in London or elsewhere.
Perrin is a more unusual surname but not a rare one.

'In the Middle Ages Westminster was separated from London by fields. A road ran along the shore or strand of the Thames. The road name 'The Strand' still survives although the road has been moved inland. However in the late 16th century rich men began to build houses along the Strand and by 1600 London was linked to Westminster by a strip of houses.
In the early 17th century rich men continued to build houses west of the city. The Earl of Bedford built houses at Covent Garden, on the Strand and at Long Acre. He also obtained permission to hold a fruit and vegetable market at Covent Garden.'


The IGI is an imperfect index and does not have comprehensive coverage of Westminster parishes. However at this time - up to the date you give, the early C18th it is the best freely available index there is.

A list of Perrins marriages in the Westminster area taken from the extracted records on the IGI (which is missing major parishes like St George Hanover Square) up to 1720.
You would expect most activity to be in the square mile of the City of London (which it overwhelmingly is with many many more marriages)

JACOB. PERYN: 25 AUG 1561 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
MARGARET PERYN: 05 MAY 1572 Saint Margaret, Westminster
ALLIZAIN PERINE: 24 MAY 1580 Saint Margaret, Westminster
THOMAS PERYN: 17 JAN 1585 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
CECILIA PERRYN: 02 AUG 1596 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
SUZANNA PERRIN: 17 AUG 1630 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
RICHARD PERRYN: 13 JAN 1634 Saint Margaret, Westminster
WM. PERRIN: 17 AUG 1641 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
HENRY PERIN: 05 NOV 1655 Saint Clement Danes, Westminster
NICHO. PERRING: 28 MAY 1668 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone
FRANS. PARHAN: 11 FEB 1688 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone
JOANNES PERYN: 20 MAY 1669 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
ANN PARON: 05 MAR 1681 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone
JANE PERIN: 17 APR 1688 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone
BENJA. PARRAN: 20 JUL 1690 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone
MARY PERREN: 28 APR 1699 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
John Parran: 10 JUN 1704 St James', Westminster
JANE PERRING: 18 AUG 1705 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
HENRIETTA MARIA PERING: 07 MAY 1706 Saint James, Paddington
ELIZABETH PARRON: 26 OCT 1707 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
JOHN PERRING: 25 APR 1715 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster
WALTER PERREN: 24 SEP 1717 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster
MARTHA PERRYN: 26 JAN 1719 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster

So there doesn't seem any particular period when the surname Perrin arrived in the Westminster area. Westminster Perrins could just as easily go to the City to get married as marry in the Westminster area with one or other of the spouses living there or in the surrounding areas (tradtionally marriages took place in the woman's parish). There is no reason to suspect all these 'Westminster' Perrins were related.


There is a Frances Perrin on the 1841 census

HO107 690/12 folio 21
Queen Street Kensington
Frances Perrin 55 Boarding Housekeeper not born in the county
adult ages, those over 15, are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.

What information do you have on Thomas and Frances?


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline kitchensink

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 12:34 BST (UK) »
Wow, thanks again for all that info.  The Frances Perrin mentioned is the correct line, she was a Bingley from Hemsworth, Yorkshire and married to Thomas.  However, Thomas is not with her in any of the census' 41/51/61 - in 41 she is with her uncle William Bingley 81 yrs and she later lived with her daughter Maria Cheesborough nee Perrin. So where is Thomas? Did he die young? I have found a burial record for a Thomas Perrin who was born in 1779 and died about 34yrs, this sort of links with a Thomas Perrin b1778 in Wandsworth - son of Thomas & Susannah Perrin.  There are also Perrin links in Barbados/Jamaica at this time and I question if he was born/linked there - Perrins in Westminster were plantation owners but again this is not a conclusive link.  I have only found two children between Frances/Thomas, the first is Godfrey (my line) and secondly Maria his sister - unusual to only have 2 children in this era?
I have emailed Westminster archives this week to see if they have a copy of the wedding certificate between Frances/Thomas to see if his father's name/occupation are stated - I have not heard back yet.

Offline alpinecottage

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 12:44 BST (UK) »
There were "Perrin"s in (spelt like that) in  the area from 1700's and too many to be just one family.

 A Thomas Perrin, baker, died 1832,  left a will naming his two daughters, Mary and Elizabeth.  Could this be your man?  Red Post- no obviously not yours, but do be careful, as you can see, there were many families with this surname!

As regards only two children, there may have been others who died young or Thomas himself may have died soon after the second childs birth.
Perrins - Manchester and Staffs
Honan - Manchester and Ireland
Hogg - Manchester 19 cent
Anderson - Newcastle mid 19 cent
Boullen - London then Carlisle then Manchester
Comer - Manchester and Galway

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 15:49 BST (UK) »
Hi

see my recent post on the London and Middlesex board on what information you will find on a marriage certificate for this period

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,472675.0.html

you will certainly not get fathers' names.

Maria was born circa 1806 in Reigate Surrey. Where was Godfrey born?
So far other than the 1804 marriage neither couple seems to have any proven connection to London and Frances certainly doesn't.

Many couples for various reasons went to London to marry and then returned home. Non-conformists did it to marry in an anonymous church. The law pre the start of civil registration between 1754 and 1837, apart from for Quakers, did not allow non-conformists to marry in their own church. Many non-conformists prefered if possible not to marry in the Anglican church of their parish. london was conveniently anonymous.
Traditionally marriages happened in the woman's parish (though to avoid the cost of banns being read for three weeks in two parishes they often lived in the same parish prior to the marriage). Many women came to London to work as servants. Many young men went to London and worked there before their marriages returning home afterwards. St Ann's Soho would be a popular church to choose to marry in.
So lots of reasons for a relatively short stay in London.


A possible

PERRIN, Elizabeth   
Christening Date:   16 May 1809 Bardney, Lincolnshire
Father:Thomas PERRIN
Mother:Frances


Regards

Valda

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kitchensink

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 04 August 10 20:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Valda

Elizabeth looks very promising as another sibling.  Did some research into Bardney village where she was born and there is a strong Perrin or sometimes Peronne (same family, different spellings for some siblings?) in the area.  William Perrin owned the Black Horse Inn from 1782-1814.  Still can't find a link for Thomas but I can see that the existing family records on ancestry are hit and miss. 

Godfrey was born in Kensington & Chelsea and Godfrey's descendants were still in this area in the 1920's (my grandma).

It appears that Frances Perrin (Bingley) also had family in the London area at the time of her marriage.

I will keep searching for clues...


Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: PERRIN London c1760 Huguenot links?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 05 August 10 10:07 BST (UK) »
Hi


So the London family connection maybe through Frances and not necessarily Thomas?

Thomas and Frances couldn't have been in Bardney and Chelsea - this looks a bit tight for two births

2nd June 1845 St Luke, Chelsea
Godfrey Perrin aged 35, South Street


Does Godfrey's baptism give his birthdate? Where was he baptised?


If the baptisms of Godfrey's children and his marriage was at St Mary Abbot Kensington those records are not deposited - they remain with the church, though there are some transcripts held at Kensingston and Chelsea library.

St Luke, Chelsea 15th January 1846
Godfrey Bingley Perrin 12, Fulham Road



Thomas Perrin victualler of Bardney's will was proved in 1805.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk