Hebrew Translation of Headstones

[nelliekelly]

Was wondering if anyone could translate these two headstones for me.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9059/dsc0228uj.jpg
http://a.yfrog.com/img806/6116/25721260121466646394.jpg

Alternate link for the last that's a little clearer, but obstructed:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9820/dsc0234qr.jpg

Thanks so very much in advance!

[Phodgetts]

I have sent this subject to a friend. This is her reply thus far to the query;

"My biblical hebrew is not brilliant, but basically it says what is says in English - it is probably yiddish, the Shapiro one says RIP - husband and father beloved, etc.."

She has contacted her niece in Israel, so I hope that there will be a more definitive answer soon.

Philip

[nelliekelly]

Thank you so much, Philip!  That's interesting, because the grave of my great grandparents has totally different Hebrew names than the English ones and I've had it translated twice with the same results.  Emma, below, is the daughter of the Shapiros.  I'm so confused. I was expecting Bernard's to match just a little bit.

Shalom son of Hayim Yitzhak; Emma: Nechama daughter of Hayim Baruch
http://image1.findagrave.com/photos/2008/74/24934903_120564012642.jpg

[Phodgetts]

OK, all I have received from Israel is this;


"it's written
(full name)  שמעון דב הלוי
נפטר בחודש טבת בשנת תרצ"ח(hebrew date of 4th of december 1937)

hope this helps - hebrew name - Shimon Dov Halevi"

I personally have no idea whether this info helps or not, but I expect that the hebrew name and surnames differ to what we would write in English, perhaps that explains the slight difference in the names of Hayin as either Yitzhak / Baruch. I expect from what she says that they are the same person but for some reason within the culture the names of the father are given slightly differently.

Many thanks to my friend for giving as much help as she could, though I am unsure as to how it might help you. The joys of inter cultural family history!

Philip

[JustinL]

Nellie,

The names on the stones read:

Minnie Gutofsky = Makhli bat Shimeon Dov ha-Levi
Bernard Shapiro = Chai’im Baruch ben Zalman - Emma's father
Ida Shapiro = Hayeh bat Zalman

The names as given here are the holy names and are in a patronymic form, i.e. X son or daughter of Y. Ben means son of, bat means daughter of.

Emma's father's holy name shows that his father, Emma's grandfather was called Zalman. By shear coincidence, her mother's father was also called Zalman.

How does Minnie fit into the family?

Justin

[nelliekelly]

Thank you both so much and anyone else who has helped here.

Minnie is my great grandfather's mother--so Emma's husband's mother.  Her husband apparently died before anyone in the family immigrated to the US.  I have no idea what the circumstances were, but apparently my great grandfather came by himself to the US at ten years old and managed to bring all of his siblings over along with his mother and her second husband and their children. 

So, how seriously should I take the Holy names in trying to research farther?  Pallack and Yitzhak, for instance--I have been told that Samuel Pallack's siblings who ended up in California (though I can find no evidence of them existing, I'm told they did exist) spelled the name Pollock. 

And if Minnie's father was Shimeon Dov ha-Levi, how possible is it that the anglicized version of her father's last name would be Levensohn or a variation?  Because I closely matched a Levensohn on FamilyTreeDNA.  I have Minnie's maiden name from children's death certificates/SS applications as Apelbaum, however.

[JustinL]

Hello,

The holy names are very important because they will be reflected in your ancestors' original Yiddish names.

Many Jews would have had three names in their original homeland:

1. The Holy Name given to a child soon after birth and used in the synagogue, etc.

2. Yiddish name / nickname (Rufname)

3. Local secular name (i.e. in Russian, Polish, etc.)

Strictly speaking, Dov is an alias of the Hebrew name Issachar; Ber being the Yiddish form.

Amongst themselves Jews rarely used surnames; surnames were required to keep better tabs on people (and tax them or conscript them).

Determining the original surnames can be very difficult indeed. Shimeon-Dov ha-Levi was a Levite; Levensohn (or Apelbaum) may, or may not, have been a Levitical family.

Do you have any idea where any of these people were born?

Did none of your ancestors become naturalised US subjects or apply for passports? Either of these documents should tell their places of birth.

Justin

[nelliekelly]

Bernard Shapiro was definitely Naturalized.  I should have, but I haven't ordered his record yet.  I'm more concerned with the Pallack-Gutofsky side at the moment, because my grandfather's cousin is working on the Shapiro line.  The census reports say all the others were, excluding perhaps Minnie, but I haven't been able to track down any of those records.  I put in a request for a search with NARA's Great Lakes Region twice and for some reason they still haven't gotten back to me months later.  I actually visited and looked at the soundex microfilm index by hand and that didn't warrant anything.  No passport applications on Ancestry show up.  Can't imagine they were Naturalized anywhere else but the Chicago area. 

Haven't had any luck with Ellis Island or Castle Rock, etc.  Even using the One-Step soundex search....

Samuel Pallack always said he was born in St. Petersburg and that's what is on most of the records, except for his WWI Draft Registration Card which says Krimach. I assume from JewishGen that it could be Krynki, Poland.  Minnie was born in Grodno, Russia (Belarus, I'm guessing) on her death certificate. Bernard was born in Mogilev, Belarus and Ida (nee Schwartz) may have been born in either Iaşi, Romania or Beltsy, Romania.  Samuel Shapiro's father, Zalman Samuel Shapiro, was born in Lithuania and died in Mogilev. 

My grandfather really doesn't care about his Jewish roots (in fact, he wouldn't admit to being even ethnically Jewish for the longest time), so I know very little--really appreciate your time and knowledge.

[JustinL]

I was really hoping that these families had have come from areas for which more records are available online.

If Minnie/Makhla Apelbaum was born in Grodno, I find it hard to believe that she would have ever gone to Saint Petersburg to give birth. Can you tell me the name, birth years and places of Samuel's siblings? Just noticed that you have not been able to find them. Can you ask the person who claims they exist?

Have you found the whole family in an early US census?

Justin