Author Topic: Excise officers  (Read 25288 times)

Offline Liza115

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 22:11 BST (UK) »
StevieSteve and Bookbox, thank you both so much for giving examples of the type of material in the actual minute books. I was confused by seeing the short forms of minutes included in the index. Now I get it! Will have to visit in person for sure. Too bad it's so far away.


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Offline kingtonmagna

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #64 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 05:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi anyone that has access to the excise men records-Am unfamiliar with Athens!
The name I am wanting to find is Thomas Ronald. Our family records say this:Great grandfather Thomas Ronald (1760-1844) in his youth worked on a large stock farm in Ayrshire for a man who was in with the smugglers along the Ayrshire coast.
 He, with the other men on the farm was sent on horseback to bring in the kegs of wines and other liquor, bales of silks, etc. brought from France. He changed his ways and some years after his marriage to Margaret Stewart in 1793 was made excise man. Now according to my records they were married in Paisley, I suppose this means he worked in Renfrewshire possibly anywhere between 1793--1800 This is all I know.
Thanks for any help
kingtonmagna

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Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #65 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 08:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I don't know about Athens either but this is what you can do for the TNA records

First, on their website search for Thomas Ronald in CUST 116 to find a start date

I've done that and didn't find anything so, assuming that you don't either, then that suggests he would have joined before 1820

You then need to search the Index to Minute Books in CUST 47. By that, I mean drill down into each catalogue item and look at the preview. Say start from 1793 and onwards. In the preview, scroll through to surnames beginning with R and note the Page number (along with the full CUST 47 reference) for any references to Thomas Ronald.

Then post the details on here so that someone can get out the actual items
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #66 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 08:15 GMT (UK) »
Liza115

I've started going back to TNA after a break, so if you haven't yet been to TNA, post up any references and I 'll have a look next month
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline Liza115

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 11:38 GMT (UK) »
StevieSteve
What a kind offer! Thank you very much. I'm hoping to get to the National Archives next June, but I know there won't be enough time for all the things I want to look up, so it would be wonderful if you could give me a head start.
I've been working my way backwards through the indexes, from the year his youngest child was born. So far, I've found about 20 references to him between 1835 and 1860, but haven't looked earlier or later than that yet. Would you mind looking for these four when you have time:
CUST 47/614 William B Price, page 9 (1835 -- I'm not sure of that middle initial, but it's worth investigating)
CUST 47/629 William Price, page 45 (1838)
CUST 47/691 William Price, page 73 (1853)
CUST 47/715 William Price, pages 37 and 57 (1857-58)
I'm hoping that will give me a few clues about his movements and maybe his age.
Let me know if you need any more detail for the references.
Thanks so much for your help, it's much appreciated!
Cheers
Liza115

 

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 12:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi there, no problem

If you want to list all the other references (no need for the year) that'll be fine too - they're very quick to deal with. And if you actually do have 20, then they can be pre-ordered in one hit, otherwise it's the first 12.

Steve

Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline Liza115

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #69 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 21:01 GMT (UK) »
StevieSteve
I wasn't sure how onerous a task it would be to look up so many, after hearing about the three documents an hour, so I didn't want to overload you. If it's easy to do 20, that's brilliant!
Here's the list (so far -- c 1835 - 1860)
CUST 47/614/1 -- William B Price, 9  [middle initial could mean it's someone else]
CUST 47/629/1 -- William Price, 45
CUST 47/637/1 -- William Price, 14
CUST 47/638/1 -- William Price, 83
CUST 47/656/1 -- William Price, 114
CUST 47/658/1 -- William Price, 107
CUST 47/665/1 -- William Price, 163
CUST 47/669/1 -- William Price, 144
CUST 47/676/1 -- William Price, 123
CUST 47/680/1 -- William Price, 31
CUST 47/687/1 -- William Price, 75
CUST 47/691/1 -- William Price, 73
CUST 47/695/1 -- William Price, 79
CUST 47/707/1 -- William Price, 98
CUST 47/708/1 -- William Price, 108
CUST 47/711/1 -- William Price, 62
CUST 47/715/1 -- William Price, 37, 57
CUST 47/716/1 -- William Price, 90
CUST 47/720/1 -- William Price, 75
CUST 47/726/1 -- William Price, 25
While trawling through these indexes, I was just looking for someone who could be William Price. There were men with the same surname but different initials, who were easy to discount. It has only occurred to me now that some of the ones I wrote down said 'William' or 'Wm' and some just said 'W'. It's possible that some I have claimed are actually for Walter Price, another name I saw there somewhere, but not of interest.
I'll go through the earlier and later indexes and see if I can add any more to this list in the next few days.
This man or his parents were said to be from Ellesmere, Shropshire, but he may have spent most or all of his career in Ireland. His eldest known child was born c 1846 (location unknown). His last known child was born in 1857 in Co Tyrone, and he is described as excise officer, deceased, on his daughter's marriage certificate in 1873. His wife and children lived in Coleraine, Londonderry, after he died. His wife, Elizabeth, died in 1896 aged 72, in England.
Thanks, StevieSteve, I really appreciate your efforts with this.
Cheers
Liza115 

Offline Liza115

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #70 on: Monday 19 November 18 08:34 GMT (UK) »
After wading through more Excise minute book indexes, I've come to the end of references to William Price. There were seven earlier mentions of him, in addition to the previous list:
CUST 47/527/1 - 112
CUST 47/531/1 - 32
CUST 47/533/1 - 59, 102
CUST 47/535/1 - 13
CUST 47/563/1 - 81
CUST 47/598/1 - 56
CUST 47/600/1 - 24
However, I'm pretty sure that the William B Price in CUST 47/614/1 I included on the previous list is a different man. He is mentioned regularly in earlier records with the middle name Barnsley, and is not of interest to me.
That adds up to mentions in 26 minute books out of the 200+ I looked at. If all of these are indeed for the same man, his career in Excise seems to have run from 1821 until about 1860.
Steve, if this is too many to look up, the priority would be for the first few, to show where he started out, and the last five, which might confirm where he was living when he died. Thanks again for any you can look up.
I looked through the indexes all the way to the last one, CUST 47/749/1, which was for 1867. Does anyone know if there are other indexes for Excise men who were employed after that? I have another in my tree who started work probably between 1870 and 1875.

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Excise officers
« Reply #71 on: Monday 26 November 18 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Liza115

All ordered for Saturday

Regarding later dates, TNA say they have

Pension records and staff lists of Excise and Inland Revenue officers (1642-1970)
Browse CUST 39 in our catalogue for pension records and staff lists of Excise and Inland Revenue officers. These records have not been indexed, so you will need to search records for the relevant years. Most of the Inland Revenue staff files are in CUST 39/235-248. There is also a staff list for 1692 in CUST 109/9.

Inland Revenue establishment lists (1869-1920)
Browse IR 147 in our catalogue for details of Inland Revenue officials. It covers staff in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Details include dates of appointment and promotion, salary, place of employment and, in some cases, date of birth.

Books
Consult Hamís Year Book, Hamís Customs Year Book and Hamís Inland Revenue Year Book, available in major research libraries. These are indexed directories of Customs officers, Excise men and Inland Revenue officials covering 1875 to 1930. To access these records you will either need to visit us, pay for research (£) or, where you can identify a specific record reference, order a copy (£).

Customs Board minute books (1734-1885)
Browse CUST 28 in Discovery, our catalogue, for minute books of Customs officers. These do not record appointments but include details such as leave, transfers, suspensions, sackings, resignations and pensions for existing officers.

Unfortunately, because of a fire at Custom House in London in 1814, very few minute books from before 1814 have survived.

From 1839 the volumes are quarterly. They are internally indexed, but before 1849 some of them have been split into two parts, with the index in the first part.


I've not had experience with any of them though TNA add

As there is no single index of people or places that can be used to find service records your search for information may require some patience.
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE