AMOS sisters - MARY GAFFIGAN, ANNIE McKEE and ISABELLA CAMPBELL

[jj.carroll]

  Hello, I have been off of these boards for a considerable amount of time - but now, hopefully, I am returning to see if there is anything that might  shed some light on my ancestry.

For those in the past that helped me understand I want to thank them profusely.

Regarding my Agnes Gaffigan, one thing that I would point out is that the census material from The City (which we from there call it) show Agnes with an A.  That would be indicative of the Amos background, and not her actual name.  It should be Agnes Bridget Gaffigan. 

There was some mystery regarding her marriage to Michael Joseph McCarroll (who sometimes dropped the "Mc") which took place in Dundalk, County Louth, Northern Ireland (which at the time you could drop the "northern").  This took place in July 1912.

Michael (or Mickey, as he was sometimes called) had been a resident of San Francisco since 1899; he had up to the time of his marriage been a merchant with his brother Thomas in his grocer's store .  The question has been asked, and no one has an answer to it - why had the two of them gotten married in Dundalk at the Cathedral.

I do not have an answer, but a possible explanation.

Patrick, called the Yank, was another brother that traveled extensively between the area of Eskragh to visit his mother and siblings.  In addition to that, Mickey had also traveled back to the homeland and there is some evidence that he had landed in Liverpool in 1908.  There may have been a transcriber error in that his age at that time was 39,while his age then was only 29.  His occupation was saloon keeper.

We move a bit to the marriage of Mickey and Agnes Bridget Gaffigan.  It seems that Patrick passed away (we know not how) in 1912.  What was significant was his stone at the Eskragh cemetery was in close proximity to the family stone (last seen in 1982, personally), but not with it.

Mickey, who we have not found a record of his arrival back in Ireland, might have been there at that time and seceded to take over what might have been Patricks.  Or he may have just been a visitor and remained because of his mother.  However, there is a rationale for the two dates being very much the same year.  Michael probably sent for Agnes, because he planned to stay in Ireland rather than return to San Francisco.

We have found a record of Agnes arriving at Cobh in 1912, and it appears her occupation at that time was stenographer - which was what it was given in the 1911 census.

In any event,  this may be just dreaming on my part, but there seems to be a certain logic to it.

jj.carroll

[Rosinish]

Hi jjc,

I'm a late-comer but...

"MARY AMOS GAFFIGAN (with her sisters, ANNIE AMOS [or possibly McKEE] and ISABELLA CAMPBELL) had left to go to Scotland with her husband PATRICK GAFFIGAN.  We have not located their marriage, in either Ireland or Scotland. Patrick was also born in Ireland according to records we have found.  They had two children, Thomas and John Amos, who were born in Scotland.  After his death she took the children and went to California to live among the two other sisters had arrived in Northern California - before 1867"

Can you tell me where in Scotland the 2 children were born & when?

What dates do you have for a window of death for Patrick & what was his c YoB please?

I have come across many variants for 'Irish' names on my travels which can make life very frustrating & costly 

Annie

[aghadowey]

There was some mystery regarding her marriage to Michael Joseph McCarroll (who sometimes dropped the "Mc") which took place in Dundalk, County Louth, Northern Ireland (which at the time you could drop the "northern").  This took place in July 1912.

County Louth has never been in what is now Northern Ireland or what was/is the Province of Ulster.

[jj.carroll]

  Annie - I have been off of these boards for at least ten years and have just returned.  I am going to have a little time looking at what I have previously posted.  But I recall that I had a lady that did some of the work that I cannot do, and her responses were quite good for Scotland.

The YOB (which I think is year of birth) for Patrick is not available at present, and one of the wonders we have come across in this search.  Our problem is that they have been identified as Irish, but Old Man Gaffigan has always held out that they are Scots.  But, having had the pleasure of meeting him, I found him to be a little strange (and that is a mouthful).

We really don't know just what the Gaffigan started out as, but even stranger is the Amos sisters.  We know a lot about them in later life, but not their lineage.

  So if you will bear with me for a while, let me see if I can find your answers.

Jim

[jj.carroll]

  Thank you aghadowey; I guess we would not how to work these things without your input!

[jj.carroll]

  Let's see now, I believe that around 1595 or 1596 Louth became part of Leinster.  Prior to that time, while part of the British Pale, it was historically part of Ulster.  But, even though I am a bit ancient, I wasn't around then so I really don't know if my history is correct and up to date.

[Rosinish]

The YOB (which I think is year of birth) for Patrick is not available at present,

What census' is Patrick on in Scotland & what age is shown on each?

Annie

[jj.carroll]

   You have gotten the juices flowing on this matter of research that you raised Rosinish.

The simple matter is to take the easy road, and say that John was born 24 May 1858 in Paisley Refrenshire (and leave it at that, because there is good background on that date).  His bother Thomas was born 24 May 1856 in Coatbridge, Lankashire.  Note that the dates have a similarity.

We have struggled with the Amos name, and while we have good feelings on it as far as San Francisco goes - it was not easy to find this Irishwoman in Scotland.

However, along comes JAP  a while back that came up with a clinker.  No, it wasn't just that the dates duplicated each other but that there were other complicating factors.

To put it in a nutshell, he came up with evidence that seems to indicate that Mary Amos did in fact have two children: John and Thomas.  They had birthdays that were similar to those previously reported, but a little different.

This is what JAP found:

At the ScotlandsPeople site, http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, he found:

Statutory Births, Ref 573/01 0232; 1858, Births in the Parish of High Church in the Burgh of Paisley.

(Name) MCGEOCH, John
(Born) 1858, May seventeenth, 5h 0m am, 14 Broomland Street, Paisley
(Sex) M

(Father) John McGeoch, Dealer in Cattle
(Mother) Mary McGeoch, maiden name Amos

(Informant) Mary Torbett, Her X Mark, Aunt, Present (at birth); (signed) Louis Stream(?), Registrar, Witness (i.e. to Mary's Mark)  (Registered) 1858 May 20th, At Paisley, Louis Stream(?), Registrar

Note that Aunt Mary Torbett signed with her mark.  As JAP noted, "perhaps she could not read and so had no idea what name the Registrar had recorded; also, perhaps she had a strong Irish accent (and the Registrar might have had a strong Scots accent!)."

This is a very interesting development in that "McGeoch" was never known to have existed prior to this.  It could very well be that she assumed the name McGaffigan or Gaffigan, never letting her children know of the true name.  But we just don't know, at this point.

The problem is that I have lost track of JAP in my way from this board.

Good Luck, Rosinish

There may be some of the Gaffigan Clan that would like to bury this development in the darkest part of the closet, but there may be some that would wish to track it down - if possible.

[Rosinish]

Who is Mary with on the census' you have?

I was asking about the dates of the children & the age of Patrick on the census' to look for a death but it seems that's irrelevant now possibly?

Do you have the actual cert. for the birth of Thomas 1856?
Is the father different or is there no father named?

Although the dates are similar it seems just a coincidence unless you have other info. on Thomas?

Annie