ellen smith nee callaghan 1896

[julie Thorborn]

im looking for a reference for the above in order to send for her birth certificate
she was born in manchester  - mother catherine murphey
married charles henry smith  dec 1818 -  first child francis maude smith 1920
any help would be appreciated
 

[Luzzu]

Hi,

 

I can't see an Ellen Callaghan birth in Manchester for 1896 however there are two for 1898:-

3rd qtr 1898 Manchester 8d 264
3rd qtr 1898 Manchester 8d 305

 

I was wondering if you had the name of her father from the marriage which I can't see for 4th qtr 1918 but can see a possible for 3rd qtr 1920 (Ellen spelt as Helen and groom, Henry C Smith).

Have you got her on the 1901 census?  If we could see were she was in 1901, this might help to pinpoint a reference for her birth.

Luzzu

[julie Thorborn]

no i dont have that  - someone kindly found her marraige details to charles henry 
i think often it changed around to henry charles smith.....
thanks for trying 

[garstonite]

on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk the 1918 marriage is Mary E Callaghan .....to Charles Smith ??
I don`t know if this is the marriage you are refering to - if so , maybe we should be looking for Mary Ellen Callaghan and not Ellen Callaghan and that`s why you can`t find her birth...back soon...allan

[garstonite]

OK...A Possible
Mary Ellen Callaghan mar qtr 1897 Manchester 8d 225
it`s possible Mary Ellen Callaghan was born late december 1896 and registered early January 1897 - hence the mar qtr 1897 registration...
so IF , AND IT IS A BIG IF the 1918 marriage to Charles Smith is your (Mary) ELLEN CALLAGHAN
I would think the above birth registration is very possible....can someone else check this out please and give their opinion...I don`t want to lead Julie astray....I think the above is possible.....if I`m wrong , slap my wrists....lol....allan

[julie Thorborn]

ooo what a mary ellen ! i wonder if thats where the family saying come from
i appreciate any help and thanks garstonite 
i will hang fire and see if anyone confirms  and send for the birth certificate

[Luzzu]

Hi,

I have been looking for both on the 1901 census without success so far  .

The Lancs BMD has the 1920 marriage Ellen Callaghan/Henry C Smith as taking place at St Oswalds, Collyhurst.

Julie - where did you find the reference to Catherine Murphy as (Mary) Ellen's mother?   Have you got a copy of Frances Maude Smith's birth certificate?  I was wondering how her mother's name was on there and also what was the address.

Like Garstonite, I would hate you to order the wrong certificate, so if we could just find another clue.  Based on what we have so far, I think it could go either way.

Luzzu

[Luzzu]

Hi,

Just seen a tree on A******y with Henry Charles Smith born 1897 Liverpool married to Ellen Callaghan in 1920 and it gives his parents as Julius Smith and Alice Maude Charlotte Hunt.

I think is the marriage for his parents:-

2nd qtr 1886 Liverpool 8b 208 and Lancs BMD has it taking place at Liverpool St Peter.

I know its really flimsy evidence but maybe Frances Maude was named for her grandmother  .

Luzzu

[julie Thorborn]

yes thats them
but im not sure what you mean that francis was named for her grandmother
francis sister is still alive she says ellens mother was catherine murphey thats whyy im after ellens marriage cert. i do beleive that they all were born in lpool and then mooved to m/c befor they all went to usa.
thanks so much luzzu