Author Topic: Location of PG70, Monturano  (Read 24510 times)

Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #18 on: Monday 16 April 12 14:34 BST (UK) »
What superb work and a tremendous record of the camp. His views certainly put beyond doubt the identity of the buildings in my photographs.

How did he get his materials?

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Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #19 on: Monday 16 April 12 14:54 BST (UK) »
Not shown in my general shot of the camp but here is the parabolic archway at the gate as it is today. Looks very much unchanged since your uncle's day

Richard

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Offline Forbes75

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #20 on: Monday 16 April 12 17:14 BST (UK) »
That is an excellent photo of the arch, and how extraordinary that it should be from almost exactly the same viewpoint as my uncle's sketch of it, done 69 years ago.

When you were there, could you tell if the premises were used for anything, or just left empty? Did you manage to go inside?

Forbes

Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #21 on: Monday 16 April 12 19:58 BST (UK) »
No, we didn't manage to get inside and there didn't appear to be any activity at all on the site. I can't be certain what it is used for now but my impression was that it is perhaps used for warehousing.

The style of the architecture is very distinctive and I'm amazed that so little appears to have changed.

Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #22 on: Friday 18 May 12 12:33 BST (UK) »
Well, here's an interesting situation.

I've just received my father's army service record. It clearly shows his posting to N. Africa and his subsequent capture by the Italians at Tobruk. However, POW camp details are a bit scant and the only reference I can see is to PG 60 at Colle Compito, near Lucca.

The reference reads:

Under Part II order; 2/234/42 Cas.

and under Postings; Camp P.G. 60 P.M. 3200 (or could be 5200) Italy D.N.S.

Can anyone help with these numbers and abbreviations

My understanding was that PG 60 was closed in late '42, can anyone expand on that?  Did PG 60 close completely?

Unfortunately the info received doesn't really help in pinning him down to PG 70.

Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 19 May 12 18:47 BST (UK) »
I read an item, in Italian so much of it was unintelligible to me, which seemed to suggest that there was a concentration camp housing the usual groups of prisoners, Jews, political activists etc. at Colle Compito, Cappanori, Nr Lucca. Can that be confirmed?

I am assuming that this was the former PG60 but can't be certain. I was able to glean that conditions in the area seem to have been very bad with marshy land, mosquitoes etc. Was this the reason its use as discontinued as a POW camp?

I have been to Colle Compito and it's in a beautiful location which is hard to equate to older descriptions. Perhaps the area has been drained and brought in to use for arable farming.

Offline ADM199

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 30 May 12 16:34 BST (UK) »
PG 60 was in the Postal area PM 320O.

Unfortunately the Intelligence that gave the Camp Position didn't have the benefit of G.P.S. which has made us all critical of Positions given in 1943.


Well, here's an interesting situation.

I've just received my father's army service record. It clearly shows his posting to N. Africa and his subsequent capture by the Italians at Tobruk. However, POW camp details are a bit scant and the only reference I can see is to PG 60 at Colle Compito, near Lucca.

The reference reads:

Under Part II order; 2/234/42 Cas.

and under Postings; Camp P.G. 60 P.M. 3200 (or could be 5200) Italy D.N.S.

Can anyone help with these numbers and abbreviations

My understanding was that PG 60 was closed in late '42, can anyone expand on that?  Did PG 60 close completely?

Unfortunately the info received doesn't really help in pinning him down to PG 70.
Prisoners of War. North Africa,Italy and Germany

Offline mwe152

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #25 on: Monday 10 September 12 11:39 BST (UK) »
Anydogsbody's picture of PG70 "today" shows it's largely unchanged since my visit (with my parents, during a holiday in Rimini) in July, 1974. It was a leather factory at that time and there was a bar across the arch (as in the sketch) with the name "S.A.CO.MAR". The pic's are on my flickr page (mwe152).

My dad was captured on Oct 28th, 1942 in North Africa & taken on the route described (in the hold of the ship & on to Capua). He was in the camp with a man called Bob Haynes (originally from Alperton & lives in Ruislip), who he kept in touch with.

The name Monturano is a new one on me. Dad always called it Fermo or Porto San Giorgio. It was 100 miles/160km down the Autostrada from Rimini to P.S. Giorgio, we then headed inland towards (or through?) Fermo. Dad had to ask various locals in order to find the place! This and the fact I can't find it on Google Earth means it was a pretty goood place for a PoW camp, as few would fancy escaping and no-one would be able to do a rescue!

Just had a quick scoot around online and there is a town called MONTE URANO (not Monturano) 40km north of Fermo. "Monturano" is probably a word of mouth, unwritten corruption of Monte Urano?

Offline Anydogsbody

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Re: Location of PG70, Monturano
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 19 September 12 18:56 BST (UK) »
Excellent pictures and further confirmation of the identity of the camp.
The issues of name and location have been discussed further back in this thread but the camp was definitely called Monturano and bears no relation to the town, Monte Urano. Neither is it at the official location recorded at Kew, just to confuse matters further!!

Just as a long shot does your dad recall encountering a Royal Engineers sergeant, Leonard (Len) Cliff  who was captured at Tobruk?
I know dad was at PG60(I've got his military record) which closed with the occupants being transferred, probably to Monturano, but I can't be absolutely certain because there is no mention of it in his record.