Author Topic: Groom family in South Africa  (Read 14450 times)

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 18:45 GMT (UK) »
do you have the 1851 census ?

HO107; : 1519;  426; : 4;
Goswell Street Clerkenwell
13 Myddleton Square
Robert Groom   head mar. 40 tinplate merchant b. Suffolk hesslet
Martha    38 wife b. West Indies Jamaica
Robert   7 son scholar at home b. St pancras
William    5 son scholar at home  b. Clerkenwell
Martha    4 b. do.
Henry    2 b. do.
Charles    1 b. do.
Jane Cuisley   36 servant cook b. Yorkshire Weston
Elizabeth Thornborrow   30house servant b. westmorland kirkby
Ann Finch   16 nurse maid b. st pancras
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline pampoen

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 17 November 10 12:06 GMT (UK) »
Toni thanks so much for all the effort you have put into finding all the family for Constance, it is truly amazing what is out there on the web.

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 17 November 10 12:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Derek its no problem I was looking for the marriage of William Williams Groom and Mary Tobin (I’m pretty sure its Tobin and not Jolin) I didn’t find it but I did find the family in 1881 in Canada here:
Bracebridge Muskoka
William Groom 35 Roman Catholic b. England Stone Clerk
Mary 31 ‘O’ b. Ireland
William 5 H.S. of English Origin (does this mean he was born in England?)
Mary 4 ‘O’
Martha 2

Little Martha would be Martha Hessett Groom b. 1879 as posted previously

As you can see they had a son William Groom I think this is William Tobin Groom who had  a son Louis James on 4 Jan 1911 with Clara Julia Herres (and variants) other children to William & Clara are Clara Julia 21 Dec 1901 & Matilda Isabella 4 July 1904 & Mary Amelia 19 July 1899


Here is William Tobin Grooms marriage:

Groom William Tobin / 23 / residence when married London / b. Halifax US / Bachelor / merchant / Mother Mary Elizabeth Tobin Father Williams
Herres Clara Julia Herres / 23  / residence when married London / b. Roger City Mich./ spinster // Mother Emily  Amanon father Simons
date 15 Sept 1898 Middlesex Ontario

The majority of Catholic churches in England still hold their records so it may be worth investigating the Catholic Family History Society, if you are interested in tracing this lien further.
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 17 November 10 12:57 GMT (UK) »
whilst searching for further details on William Williams Groom or William Tobin Groom i have found Clara Julia Herres in the 1880 US census with her parents
father

Wesphalia Clinton Michigan
Simon Herres / 29 / b. Canada / fathers p.o.b Germany mothers p.o.b ditto. widowed / occ. = doctor
Clara / 6/ dau. / b. Michigan / parents b. Canada
Lullu / 3 / son  / b. do. parents b. do.
Mary / 18 / sister / keeping house
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive


Offline jorose

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 17 November 10 15:09 GMT (UK) »
Interesting witness at that 1870 marriage given the French/Belgium connections in Constance's family:

RG10/70 45/32  (1871)
Barclay Road, Fulham
Marius Niviere, 35, schoolmaster b. France
Emily, wife, 36, b. Epsom Surrey

www.historicaldirectories.org/ shows him in 1874 at Chesterfield House, Barclay Road
(Niviere and Neviere are both surnames found particularly in SE France).

They seem to disappear after this.

also:
RG10/189 61/19 (1871)
50 South Hill Park, Hampstead
John R Lyell (or Lyall?), 26, clerk of police Marylebone P.C., b. Scotland
Martha E, wife, 24, civil servant's wife, b. Islington

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/ has a couple of hits for John Ronaldson Lyell who was a clerk at the Marylebone Police Court.

"origin" on a Canadian census is from the father's line; "H.S." here is probably "N.S." for Nova Scotia, but his father was from England so he's "English".  This field tends to get somewhat less accurate the further back in time the original immigrant ancestor was. ;)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 17 November 10 17:35 GMT (UK) »
thanks Jorose that makes sense  :)
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline pampoen

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 18 November 10 12:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Toni and Jorose I don't know where you find all the info but it is exciting to see all the names.I would however like to concentrate on Constance at this stage.

In short it appears that her father was a HE Groom married to Frances (Fanny) E.The children were:
Gertrude M Groom   16 scholar b. London                         (1875)
Mabel E Groom 14 do. b. do.                                             (1877)
Maud M Groom   13 do. b. France Havre BS                       (1878)
Constance H Groom   11 do. b. do. BS                              (1879)
Claud A Groom   9 do. b. Brussels BS                                (1882)
Charles E Groom   8 do. b. Kent ? Broad.or Bruoghton ?   (1883)
Leon  J Groom   7 do. b. do.                                               (1884)

In 1892 there's also an H. E. (the father?) with an Elizabeth (possibly second wife), and two of the girls shown on the 1891-- "Gertrude M" and "Mabel E" leave for South Africa. I also found this on the NAAIRS archives as the one for Charles below which verifies HE Groom sailed to South Africa in 1892. DEPOT     NAB  SOURCEAGO                                   VOLUME_NOI/8/68    REFERENCE405A/1899                                                             
                                                                   
DESCRIPTION          HE GROOM, LOWER TUGELA STATES PACKAGES ADDRESSED TO MRS. ASHBY     CONTAINED PARTS OF RHINOCEROS HEADS.                                 
                                                           
Claud. A. and a Charles. L. heading to SA in 1906 of the right age to be the boys Claud Albert and Charles Lancelot.
SA archives show an entry for Charles Lancelot Hessett Groom (wife Adeline Rose) (think this is his estate notice from 1958), so other members of this family did go to SA.
Charles Lancelot Hesset Groom   DEPOT NAB means he lived in Natal South Africa.

In addition  I also found these references on the NAAIRS archives relating to Constance H Groom.DEPOT NAB DESCRIPTION          SISTERS MILLS AND GROOM - SUNNYSIDE NURSING HOME VRYHEID. WRITE       
           REGARDING THE REPORT MADE BY DISTRICT HEALTH OFFICER VRYHEID ON THE NURSING HOME.                                                       
STARTING  1906.SISTERS MILLS AND GROOM SUNNYSIDE NURSING HOME VRYHEID. WRITES WITH   
           REFERENCE TO THE RENEWAL OF THE GOVERNMENT GRANT $150 PER ANNUM.     

My main aim now is to find out when Constance sailed to South Africa.Also I need to start digging in the SA records to find out where the other family members are buried.As Constance had only been married 18 years when her husband died I wondered how she survived?At least now I can see she had other family to help her.

Regards Derek                                                               
                                                                               

Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline toni*

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 18 November 10 12:23 GMT (UK) »
Derek where did HE Groom sail from in 1892
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline pampoen

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Re: Help wanted for Groom family please
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 18 November 10 13:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi not sure but this is what Jorose posted earlier.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action shows a C. A. and a C. L. heading to SA in 1906 of the right age to be the boys Claud Albert and Charles Lancelot.  in 1892 there's also an H. E. (the father?) with an Elizabeth (possibly second wife), and two of the girls shown on the 1891-- "Gertd M" and "Mabel E".

Regards Derek
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.