Author Topic: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829  (Read 4028 times)

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,092
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 December 10 23:30 GMT (UK) »
Dazey,
Should really have said how delighted I was to get all that wonderful personal description of his appearance in that second link you sent - his exact height and complexion, the colour of his hazel eyes, his "overhanging(!)" eyebrows, that Kirk Douglas-like dimple in the middle of his chin, and the obligatory scar by his right eye.  Plus his occupation as a ploughman in the village of Little Shelford, a matter of 3 or 4 miles south of Cambridge.
Infuriatingly, I too cannot precisely read the faint (almost invisible ink) writing as far as one can scroll to the right of the double page in that first link...
It certainly looks as though he had been married 13 months (previous to the crime?) to a Mary (from?) an indecipherable place in Cambridgeshire that begins with a P, I think, and has a K in the middle, and possibly a T at the end.
There's also something that looks like "for a lamb" buried in the middle of those sentences, and I  was wondering whether that had something to do with the nature of his crime.
I would be MOST grateful if other Rootschatters could get on their Sherlock Holmes deerstalkers and try and decipher those sentences on that first link of yours, Dazey
Many thanks, it just brings these poor characters brilliantly to life again...
Regards, keith

Offline PrueM

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,637
  • Please don't try to PM me :)
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 04 December 10 03:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Keith,

Convict records can be wonderful sometimes - nice that the (presumably) most down and out characters in our family trees can have some of the best descriptions and paper trails of everyone  :)

Incidentally my g-g-g-grandmother Mary Holmes was also on the 1817 voyage of the Lord Melville (as a convict) :)

I think the red writing on George's record says:
…for Felony. "Gaol Report" was convd of Sheep Stealing 4 years ago
Disposition … "Hulk Report Good".  Married.  Stated this after…
2 …. once for a Lamb 13 Months.  "Married" W[ife] Mary ….
Cambridges...

I think the 13 months refers to the time he served for nicking the lamb.  I can't read the place in Cambridgeshire either  :-\

Cheers
Prue

Offline PrueM

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,637
  • Please don't try to PM me :)
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 04 December 10 03:27 GMT (UK) »
Had a closer look at the place name, and fiddled with the exposure etc. and thought it looked to begin "Hawkest..."

There's nothing of that spelling in the Genuki gazetteer, but there is a Hauxton - how would that fit in with the movements of the family?

Cheers
Prue


Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,092
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 04 December 10 09:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, Prue!
Did we have a conversation/chat quite some while ago about that 1816/7 Lord Melville voyage, and did you therefore know that there's a gentleman in Australia who has almost completed a book about the voyage and what subsequently happened to those on board when they got to Australia?  If not, then please PM me for details...
And very well done for going cross-eyed on my behalf....all that you surmise would fit the bill very nicely indeed.  I'm still slightly surprised that someone convicted of sheep stealing in 1825 and sentenced to death could then 5 years later commit another larceny and only be punished by 7 years transportation, as Redroger has commented.
However, I'm pretty sure it's the same individual, and indeed that place could very well be a phonetic interpretation of the village of Hauxton, which is the very next village to Little Shelford.
Now, there's another evocative echo to this whole tale in that his occupation was given as ploughman, and the only surviving pub now in the village of Little Shelford is - The Plough.  Several have disappeared only very recently in the village.
Very many thanks, of course.
Regards, keith

Offline Redroger

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,485
  • Dad and Fireman at Kings Cross 13.7.1951
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 04 December 10 14:46 GMT (UK) »
Keith,  I have nothing further to contribute at present other than it might be helpful to us all including yourself if you asked the moderators to merge the two topics.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,092
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, Everyone,
Have since discovered quite a bit more about what happened to William's four children by Mary WORLING/WORLEN.   Son William died in 1847 aged 22, and I have been communicating with descendants of his daughter Kitty, sometimes known as Catherine.  In the 1851 census for Cambridge Place in Cambridge, there is an addition to the family called Henry, born 1844.  The family rumour has it that the father might have been William's brother John, who was twice in trouble with the authorities for abandoning his family and leaving them to be looked after by the Parish.  Both times he got 3 months hard labour at the local house of correction...
William GURNER's wife Mary died in 1880, but can anyone help me with a possible death or burial for William, whose last sighting seems to be in 1867 in Melbourne, caught for more petty larceny.  His family name wasn't that common in Australia in those days, I believe...
Regards, Keith

Offline PrueM

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,637
  • Please don't try to PM me :)
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, Prue!
Did we have a conversation/chat quite some while ago about that 1816/7 Lord Melville voyage, and did you therefore know that there's a gentleman in Australia who has almost completed a book about the voyage and what subsequently happened to those on board when they got to Australia? 

Hi Keith  :D

Yes, we did chat about that, I haven't heard any more about the book though so I hope it is still going ahead.  Do you have the fellow's contact details?  If so could you PM them to me - I have a bit more info about my Mary (who was on the boat) that he may want.

Cheers
Prue

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,092
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 23:39 GMT (UK) »
Prue,
Yes, I was lead to understand that he was now very close to completing the book - I'll PM you his details, and then you'd better rush those details about your Mary to him a.s.a.p!
Regards, keith

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,092
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: William GURNER transported for 7 years in 1829
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 16 March 11 16:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, Everyone,
Over four months since this thread was last active, but since then I've been in contact with William GURNER's 4-times-great-granddaughter, who lives in the very same town as myself, here in Cambridge.  She has located William's wife Mary GURNER's 1880 grave in Mill Road Cemetery, about a mile from where I live.
So, is there a kind and resourceful soul out there in Australia who could possibly come across a death entry (some time after 1867, and possibly in the Melbourne area) for William, and even a final resting place, the other side of the world from the wife the judicial system in 1829 saw fit to separate him from...?
Very best wishes, keith