samuel HOGGARD, Budby

[Red Ash]

I do not like to see the death of a young child but assumed she had died.


It is the right Samuel who died in Stockton but I had not realised Susannah was living there in 1901.


So we now have

Samuel born 1824 married to Susannah Bartholomew after their children were born - in 1869 when he was 45 andSusannah about 40.

Samuel's brothers are Charles. B 1817. And Christopher B 1822.(Who worked in Sheffield as a butler in 1871)

Their parents are John Hoggard and Ann Armstrong.

Now I have looked at the census records. They are confusing me.

1841:  HO107-849-3 Blyth West  has John aged 50 with Charles - son - aged 24. Both blacksmiths, with Charles's wife Ann and their daughter Sarah - aged 1.
1851:  HO107-2122-364 Blyth has John and Ann (born in Derby?) aged 64 and 62 with Charles aged 34 and his family.
1861: Blyth has John Hoggard aged 77 - widow - norn in Edwinstowe- and Charles's family

But then
1861 Kneesal, Ann Hoggard born in Budby, aged 70 living with sister .Mary Armstrong..so the other John and Ann in the census's are not correct?
.

The deaths of Susannah and Dinah are the right family. Thank you.


 

[Red Ash]

My previous reply does not appear to have been lodged.

Many thanks for all the work but I am a bit muddled as to which person is definately linked when it comes to the census records.


My problem is:

If John Hoggard
Born:  1787 –Swaiston, Notts
Occupation:  Blacksmith

Married Ann Armstrong - the census's do not match....
1851 - John and Ann in Blythe living wiht Charles
Blacksmiths

1861 John 77 - wid - blacksmith - blythe

but

1861
Ann Hoggard (wid)  aged 70 in Budby living with sister Mary Armstrong
(so this seems likely)

I think there is another 1851 census with Ann and Mary living together but can not locate the copy.

Therefore - what is the connection of the Blythe family?

-----




------


John Hoggard (Haggard)
Born:
Occupation: 

Married: 5/6/1820—Edwinstowe

Elizabeth Ashmore
Born
Occupation:  Blacksmith
........

Their son

John Hoggard
Born:  1787 –Swaiston, Notts
Occupation:  Blacksmith

1851 staying with Charles in Blythe

married

Ann Armstrong
Born: 1789—Barlbine
Occupation:  Laundress?

Their sons:
Charles Hoggard
Born 1817 –Blyth
Occupation:
Blacksmith

(father and mother lived with him)

Another son:

Christopher Hoggard
Born 1822
Occupation: Butler
Living in Nether Hallam 1871 as Butler EndCliffe Grange

Another son
Samuel Hoggard
Born 1824
Christened: 30/3/1824—Edwinstowe
Occupation: Photographer
Married: 14/2/1869
St. Jude’s St. Pancras, Middlesex

his son:
John Edward Hoggard born 1861
daughter Dinah matilda born 1860 died 1865

John Edward married four times:
Annie Burnicle
Maud Elizabeth Musgrave
Ada Ellen Blake
Margaret Egan (Victoria Australia)

-----------------------------------

[wozzle]

here is the 1851 with ann and mary together
HO107/2135/167/10
anne hoggard age 59. b. budby. occ. laundress.(widow). head
mary armstrong age 57 . b. budby. occ. formerly cook. (unm). sister
living at;budby,notts

[Red Ash]

That is the one... Thank you.

So the other family in blyth I assume are not connected .... ?

Difficult when there are many similar names in the same area.

[Whipby]

Hi there

I have a passing interest in Samuel Hoggard, photographer as I'm trying to date a photograph that I might buy that's posted on a well known auction site. 

The photographer's name is Hoggard and he's listed at Linthorpe Road, Middlesbrough.

I've read your posts with interest and wonder if you know when he (or perhaps a son?) was at the Middlesbrough address?

Many thanks for any help!

[Red Ash]

Hi there

I have a passing interest in Samuel Hoggard, photographer as I'm trying to date a photograph that I might buy that's posted on a well known auction site. 

The photographer's name is Hoggard and he's listed at Linthorpe Road, Middlesbrough.

I've read your posts with interest and wonder if you know when he (or perhaps a son?) was at the Middlesbrough address?

Many thanks for any help!

Interesting that you have seen a photograph by Hoggard.

Samuel Hoggard was in York in 1861 and moved to Coatham by 1871.  I am not sure if he would have worked out of the road you mentioned.  He died 1895. 

His son, John Edward Hoggard was registered as a photographer under the name of Jonathan E Hoggard.  He seemed to have worked in Scotland in 1881 when he was 20, so he may have worked briefly for a few years prior to this date in Coatham, Redcar and then he was back there again in 1882 - 1890.  Then he seems to have moved around (Sheffield 1890, Whaley Bridge 1893-95, Australia 1895 - 1933).

I once saw the dates and places where they worked and I can not find the list at the moment.  I think it was at the Library on the Ancestory website and trades.  There is a website Victorianphotographers as well which lists them but to find the places where they worked and dates you have to pay something.

If I find the list I will let you know. 

If anyone else has any information about these two photographers it would be interesting to know.

 

[purplejulian]

John Edward is my great grandfather, I am so pleased to track him down. he did not marry my great grandmother, Maude Musgrave, but they had a daughter in 1890, Maude Herman Hartley, nee Paul (brought up by her aunt). I have a photo of him from around 1890. there is a web of family stories, mostly made up to protect mother and daughter, but one that rings true is that the wife (Annie Burnicle) approached her when she was walking out with the baby and reproached her – result she ran off to her sister in Sheffield. who knows! this is the family skeleton in the cupboard and lots of stories were made up to save embarrassment. eg the wife was an aicoholic, bigamy, gretna green marriages . etc etc. he was supposed to have turned up in Sheffield once his wife had died in 1892, to do the honourable thing, but my grt gran’s sister answered the door, turned him away, and didn’t tell my grt gran. so was he broken hearted and thus left for Australia? either he did not have much luck or he was a bit of a ladies man. I would love to know what he got up to in Australia, perhaps I will have to pay up and look on that Victorian photographers site.
my great gran went on to marry a respectable but short and stout chap called Jimmy Hawnt and had 3 more children.

[Red Ash]

Yes Samuel's son, John Edward had a busy life.

John Edward had daughter Maude and then with wife no. 2 went on to have a son (may have been killed in 1915) and daughter (who died in Lewisham in her 90's) followed by several daughters in Australia by wife no. 3.  I have not been able to find any grandchildren from these other children.  You can look for John Edward (noted as John) and his wife Margaret in the voting records in Australia on line.  A couple of daughters continued to stay at home until their parents died.

It would be interesting to find out about his work in Whaley Bridge (his wife no. 2 being his receptionist).  What type of photography was he involved in and are there any of his works logged anywhere.

He worked in Australia as a photographer and it appears he left his second wife  to go to Australia at a time his third wife had his child......

Red

[Red Ash]

John Edward Hoggard

Married Annie Burnicle who died young in 1892.  She ran a boarding house not far from her father-in- law (Samuel Hoggard) house.

In 1892 John Edward tried to marry Maude E Musgrave and was refused by her family.

In 1893 he married Ada Ellen Blake.  He had two children named in 1901 census (where Ada lived with her two children in West Derby, Liverpool - working as a photographers receptionist) - Dorothy Eleanor aged 7 and Ernest John aged 5.  From a human point of view Ada Hoggard must have had a very difficult time bringing up two small children on her own in the late 1890's.  Both of her children were born in Kings Lyn and I assume this was at her mother's home.

Ernest John Hoggard was killed in 1916, 5th June.  His mother was noted as living in Shepherds Bush, London at the time.  There is another Ernest John Hoggard born in 1896 who died in USA..... so I have not been able to confirm which he is.  I have not looked up Ada Hoggard in 1911 census and this might give us a clue. 

In 1901 (same time as Ada was in Liverpool) her husband was registered as voting in Victoria, Australia, as Edward Hoggard, photographer, with wife Margaret.  His daughters were..... Margaret Eleanor born 1899 (mother Margaret Egan), Florence Mary Hoggard, 1901, died 1960, Mabel Annie born 1904. 

In 1931 John Edward Hoggard (photographer), Margaret (home duties), Florence (clerk), Mabel (clerk)and Marjorie (saleswoman) were all living in Macarthur St, Sale.

One thing for sure is that both Samuel and his son JE Hoggard travelled a lot when their other family is likely to have stayed close to their wider family.  Samuel having been born in Nottingham and then moving to York in 1861 and up to Redcar and dying in Yorkshire.  John moving from York to Red Car up to Scotland in 1880, then to Red Car, Whaley Bridge, Australia!  All at a time when travel was not so easy.

You may be interested to look up Maude Paul's 'father'- Charles Paul's family tree - see Charles Paul in RootsChat.

Red