Author Topic: Home Children  (Read 26461 times)

Offline Sal1525

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 02 January 11 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello Polar Bear and JJ.

What absolute stars you both are. I am choked up.
I deeply appreciate your time and efforts put into my searches.
I am astounded with all the info found by all the Volunteers. Thankyou.

Shall take 10 mins out, still blown away by all that you have found, in need of a cuppa.
Be back soon.
Warm Regards
Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.

Offline Sal1525

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 02 January 11 10:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

This will be a bit long winded, sorry, feel free to throw any questions at me, to try and explain where I am coming from;

I started using a `Compo`-laptop for the first time last Jan; in order to begin family searches-made many mistakes but learning all the time_hooked now. Still cannot upload , copy and paste etc.. I shall overcome these shortcomings this year.  No printer-not ever.
Currently posted on the Tech pages here and learning a great deal, before I purchase anything this month.  Really pleased with the help pages here on rootschat. So, I write out everything by hand, don`t mind, but time consuming. My next job, after this post, is to copy out all of this board, so that I can analyze it all and post my  answers and next questions.


I have only had to search in England, until now.  I am an Arnold descendant.
 
Edwin (Edward ) Arnold married Elizabeth Merchant 17 May 1899 Chatham Kent.
Previously she was married to Robert Welsh 20 Feb 1882_Derby
In 1891 Liz was living with Thomas Brown.-Chatham, Kent
The 1911c she is living with Frederick Oliver. Chatham Kent
Elizabeth Merchant uses many aliases herself.


The children,  date range, 1879_1904 when Arthur Thomas Arnold(Thomas) was born.  He was sent to live with Charity Brown in Derby.
The children are actually Brown, Arnold and Welsh surnames. But the Barnados letter states thier aliases as the above and Smith, Mcarthy-adding to the difficulty of tracing them.


This same letter stated that there was a James Welsh_no further details for him at all.
Places of abode range vastly, many of which cannot be matched with the childrens place of birth that Liz stated for them,.


Searching for this family is fairly new to me. I have gleaned the odd detail from peoples trees where I can, there was one contact made on Ancestry, which was not very useful ---- due to an individual, being sought, a distant marraige into the family and no further data available by the contact.

Another lady whom I have had contact with, had the details of the Barnados letter, but has had the same problems as me. This is not a 3rd party search.


A lot of clarification and new information is from all of you terrific volunteers here.   Amazing!!

Sandra found the marraige, and birth details for Hazel and JJs Tweetybird site came up with fruitful data for Keziah and Edward, plus the names of the ships that they would have sailed on.

And I ,not being a bystander here, chased up the data for the ships and photos_didn`t see one for the Carthagian. Put all of the info  gathered here on my tree and was able to glean a bit more on Ancestry. Not a Worldwide member so I cannot `see` all the data.

Cosmac came up with the Marraige and Keziahs arrival in Canada.

Vbain has provided me with some useful links, which I have followed up.

The Army Records are from this board and Jjs Canadian Resources threads.
All the info here has been  very fresh and reinvigorating, after 2 solid months of obssesive highs and lows, truly cannot thank you all enough.

And Polar Bear_stunning work, had to pick myself up off the floor.
JJ I shall follow up on the link of Elijahs war Injury.
All data collected has been from this sites pointers and links. Thankyou.

Stunning work.
Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.

Offline Sal1525

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 02 January 11 18:20 GMT (UK) »
Hello Everyone,
I have just finished writing out this board. Am still amazed at what info has been found in such a short time, thankyou to all of you who are contributing to my search.

Here are the Births of all the kids, now that I finally have my paperwork in order;

Ellen Welsh -B/ 7 Feb 1879 B/ Hammersmith London__according to Barnados_no evidence found to support this.
James Welsh no details, alias Smith
Susannah Welsh-B/ 9 June 1880 Chatham Kent___nothing found in the birth indexes or Medway City Ark to support this.
Robert Welsh-B/ 8 Dec1882 Sheffield_No proof as of yet. On his Army Attestation Papers he says DOB is 28 Jan 1887 Chatham
John Welsh-B Holloway 1887-(Barnados)_I found this birth/CR entry 2 January 1886 St Barnabus, Holloway, Islington London. Parents. Robert and Elizabeth
Althenia/Reaney/Peaney_1888 Millwall or Notting Hill London_Only a 1911 census entry is found for Althenia.
Faith Hope Charity Brown-B/13 March 1892 Chatham_Correct
Elijah Arnold B/- 10 Feb 1896 Chatham_Correct
Arthur Thomas Arnold B/ 10 Sep 1904 Chatham-Correct
Edwin Merchant Arnold B/ 19 Nov 1894 Chatham_Correct
William George Arnold B/ 1 Sep 1898 Chatham-Correct
Keziah Elizabeth B/ 4 March 1901 Chatham_Correct

I think that is it. Need to sign off now.
Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.


Online J.J.

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Missing Home Children Welch / Wesh / Arnold
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 02 January 11 20:36 GMT (UK) »
ack you poor thing...I see the dilemma in searching for this family ...Susanna in 1881
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/Census/household_record.asp?HOUSEHOLD_CODE=1881BR_3477680&HOUSEHOLD_SUB=2
Parents on a previous  "subset" have never noticed this method of listing before...
 http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/Census/household_record.asp?HOUSEHOLD_CODE=1881BR_3477680
Not unusual for parents of home children to have not been able to afford to register their children...it becomes part of our heartache when searching.

Sorry that the John I found may have not worked out...although telling big fibs was sometimes part of the story, so must keep in mind that these were young children who felt abandoned, so may not have wanted or been able to remember parent's names. We have to work hard to prove and also disprove what we find due to this...Also some of the very young ones were adopted and names changed, so those may never be found... in England or Canada.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Online J.J.

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Missing Home Children Welch / Wesh / Arnold.
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 02 January 11 20:47 GMT (UK) »
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/welsh/thread/1251609
Looking at Susannah I see your thread from another site....i see why I didn't see a marriage before 1881...eek Ellen AND James were also born to this young couple before the census?...they were so young to have three children by age 19?? altho, yes, not impossible...
Are we looking for Susannah, James & Ellen or have you traced them? and a Barnes marriage in there as well...
Nevermind, I know you didn't add all this for a reason, but as I said it all helps to locate the missing...
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline Sal1525

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 02 January 11 21:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello JJ,

Thankyou for your quick replies.

The 1881 census is the only census that I come across for Elizabeth and Robert together as a family. They are unmarried here. And yes it is unusual for Susannah to be listed further down the page. 

By all accounts Elizabeth has Ellen and Susannah before her marraige in 1882-Derby. I don`t know if they are Roberts children or not.  But they are down as being Welsh surname, can find no birth records for either of them.  No evidence of James.

She has Robert in 1882 and John in 1887. That is a fair gap, don`t you think.
But , they could have well been a young couple that decided to live together, passing themselves off as married.

So, going by the births of the children, they lived in Sheffield, Derby, Chatham and London.

The Barnados letter says that Robert died in Leicester Infirmary, no specific date. On the Leicester boards here, Mike was able to confirm that there was no death for Robert in the time span of 1887-1890__Johns birth and the year he and Robert were put into care. 

Where are the girls? and the 1891 census I have as of yet not been able to find Robert and am continuing to trawl through all the areas that they lived. He could have run off_but surely would then appear in some record or other down the line.  No, I think he died, and possibly, if destitute Elizabeth put the children into care.? 
His Father is Matthew Welsh as is stated on the marraige certificate.. Robert born abt 1860 Leeds. Not the 1866 entry found as this Robert is traced via marraige, census etc to his death.

 Ellen is found much later via her marraige to Thomas Bagshaw and then lives in Derby.

I was not aware that they had to pay to register the births of thier children, thankyou for that snippet.

It is quite a sad story for the children to have borne, but I hope to find a pleasant end to thier tales.  What is harder to believe is that some of the Arnold children were in care.
And I only was made aware of that on this thread, thankyou. I do take your point about adoptions and the children probably not being able to remember, or not want  to, thier parents, and name changes..


Yes I did have a posting on Genes site. which is finished now. The helpers did thier best to come up with data and were quite successful, but unable to help with Canadian searches. I am very pleased with the results that they achieved. I told you I had obssessed over this family.

There is no Barnes Marraige and no relationship found with a Barnes. It is one of Elizabeths aliases. Which she undertook on leaving London, perhaps for a fresh start. I noted on Google that there is a small village the other side of the Bridge bordering Hammersmith, where Ellen is claimed to have been born. That village is known as Barnes.??

I have much more to add on following up on the links that you have all posted here, but I am bushed now and shall be back on line tomorrow.
Thankyou JJ.

Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.

Online J.J.

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #33 on: Monday 03 January 11 02:27 GMT (UK) »
 :-\  OOps sorry... I have no idea where I got that that they had to pay a fee? Perhaps because there was a fine if one didn't so I probably assumed this all this time. Dopey me for assuming...and apologies, as this is not something I knew/know for certain .
Was there another Robert Welsh & Elizabeth as well?
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100296601648
There is a registered birth for a  Florence Isabel Welsh March Quarter 1888 Medway  vol.2a  p.617  The same age as Peony?
did you check out this birth Dec Q. 1879 for a Susanna Merchant / W. Ham vol.4a  p.93
 
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline Sal1525

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Home Children
« Reply #34 on: Monday 03 January 11 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jj,
No need to apologise. So registering births in the 1800s was not much different than today, where one would be `addressed` if the birth is not registered within a time limit.
I have `assumed` much with the family we are reviewing/searching, only to be proved wrong etc,...

Yes, I have come across other Robert`s and Liz`s in this search, I follow the ones I find through the records, until I can , at the very least eliminate them. I will check out your link after posting this message.

Tomorrow I will have more time to go through MCArk, to see if there is a CR? entry for Florence, interesting idea.

I am now going to check out the Susannah that you have found.  It has crossed my mind that Susannah and Ellen are one and the same person in my searches for them.
Thankyou for your help, much appreciated.
Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.

Offline Sal1525

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Re: Marraige Look-Ups. Deaths_a Bonus.
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 04 January 11 14:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Have just finished copying out the info for John Welsh/Welch from your links here, which I visited.
Highly interesting __the Attestation Paper for John, looks promising. Thankyou.
I am at present initiating a search for the John and Clara that you discovered to see where it leads .

John was CR/ at St Barnabus Church, Hornsey Rd, Islington, London 2 Jan 1886 so could well be born 1885.

On the Attestation Paper, the previous Service  Record were for the Regiments; West Kent, Artillery and the 28th Perth Reg; are they all in Canada? If I can trace these records I should be able to learn more about this John that you have found, any ideas welcomed?
This makes this John 14/15 years of age when he first enlisted for Military Service-was this common? I know it happened in  WW1

So, the age could apply to the John that I am looking for. The way in which his surname has been `handled` intrigues me even more, both applied to my John.
It was Barnados that changed his name from Welsh to Welch and I had assumed that this would have been carried out officially and legally, to help the child in whatever way they could. i.e new identity, but apparently not so.
I need to go and carry out some more digging. Catch you all again.
Jordan. Bartlett. Arnold. Beaney. Pickett. Brazil.  Huckstep. Eastwood. Potter. Dighton. French----Kent. Bucks. Essex. Sussex. London.  Kirby. Martin----Ireland.
Brewin. Gregory. Dixon. Merchant. Welsh. Leicestershire. Lincolnshire.