Ann Williams, Pembroke Dock.

[mosschops2]

Hi All

Could anyone help me find the Baptism of an Ann Williams born C 1839 Pembroke Dock. Her father was Thomas and he was a Mason.

I can't find her in the 1841 or 51 census. She married 1858 in Portsea Hampshire, to a soldier of the 47th regiment and followed him to Canada.

Any help would be gratefully received, Thanks

Mick.

[Orielbenfro]

Mick
There was no parish church in the very new town of Pembroke Dock in 1839. It would not be until the mid 1840’s that Pembroke Dock St John would open for business, even then would not be fully recognized as its own parish covering the town/area of P.D. until the 1860’s. Until these dates most events where conducted either at Pembroke Town St Mary or Pembroke St Michael.
Due to continued lack of housing most Dock workers lived in the town of Pembroke and walked/ferry/walked or just walked to and from the yard.
The above said it is believed that Non-conformist chapels had begun soon after the start of building the new dockyard in 1814, although very few if any registers of these very early days still exist. One should not forget also the Dockyard military Chapel.
From my transcriptions of the registers of Pembroke St Michael 1711 to 1950’s from the register which covers baptism 1839 to 1901 I note the following ;
20 Dec 1840 Ann the natural daughter of Mary Williams of the East End baptised by James Dalton.

Bosheston Parish Registers (Abbreviated For info only)
26 Aug 1838 Ann to David & Mary Williams
30 Mar 1837 Anne to William & Anne Williams

Pwllcrochan Parish Registers
07 Mar 1841 Ann to Morris and Ann Williams

There are no other baptisms of an Ann(e) Williams in the Castlemartin area (covers Pembroke and Pembroke Dock) 1837 - 1842

From my transcription of the parish registers of Pembroke St Michael there is no reference to the mrge of a Thomas Williams Mason at Pembroke St Michael in the mrge registers which cover the periods 1814 – 1901.
 
 I can find no reference to a Mary Williams post 1840 marrying in the parish of Pembroke St Michael that would fit as the daughter of Thomas Williams a Mason. There are at least 3 possible that could be the mother of Ann above, but without knowing her father can not be sure any are correct.

There is no reference to the baptism of an Ann(e) Williams at Pembroke St Mary, however, the following may be of interest to you ;

From my transcription of the Parish Registers of Pembroke St Mary 1711 to the 1950’s from the baptism register which covers the period 1822 to 1847 I note that
18 Jan 1837 Sarah Ann to Thomas & Rhoda Williams of the Dock a Mason baptised by J. Dalton.
Thomas & Rhoda had a further 3 children over the next 7 yrs baptised at Pembroke St Mary.

I would speculate that if you conclude that this is the baptism you seek then it is lightly that Thomas Williams of Pembroke St Mary married Rhoda Sambell 21 Dec 1835 at Llanstadwell

Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[mosschops2]

Many thanks for being so thorough Orielbenfro.

I thought you may have found the correct one with Sarah Ann with the mother Rhoda but she is still living with her mother in Cardiff in 1861 and I know that my Ann passed through Liverpool on the way to Dublin the night before the census was taken in 1861.
It's possible that they were Catholic. She married in a parish church and her husband and family were C of E but their children were all Baptised and brought up Catholic, so the influence must have come from somewhere.

Are there any records from the dockyard military chapel?

I cant help thinking that Ann may be from a military family. On her marriage certificate both Ann and her husband George Collins address was given as Chelsea barracks Portsea Hampshire. what would an 18 year old girl be doing living in an army barracks?

Again, many thanks for your reply.

Mick

[Orielbenfro]

Mick,
I would make the following observations for your information and consideration ;
1. As far as I understand it, there are few if any R.C. registers deposited with Record Office’s in the U.K. in line with instructions from the Vatican forbidding such official deposits. There are certainly none available for Pembrokeshire that I am aware of.
2. The R.C. church St Patrick’s is at Pennar, Pembroke Dock, I am unaware when this opened, but you could try googling and submitting a request, no doubt payment will be required.
3. All mrge pre Sept 1837 by law had to take place in the Established church, therefore the mrge of Thomas Williams the Mason would have taken place in the the most lightly place that of the parish of his future wife or perhaps his own parish. If she or he resided in Pembroke Dock then the mrge must have taken place at Pembroke St Mary and would be in my full transcription of all St Mary Mrge’s 1711 to 1950’s. St Mary’s was considered the parish church of the area known as Paterchurch, which in 1817 (not 1814 as suggested elsewhere) would become the town of Pembroke Dock. Remember one only had to reside at an abode for a minimum of 6 weeks to be of that abode at mrge.
4. Info supplied in my previous also covers the registers of the Dockyard Chapel. Further Richard Rose in his book “Pembroke People” ISBN 0-9535542-0-1 the absolute bible of Pembroke Dock during the period circa 1780 to 1837, confirms my findings that there was only one Thomas Williams Mason in Pembroke Dock at the time of your interest, I have been able to add the mrge of Thomas and a further 3 children not shown in the book.
5. Where was George Collins living in the previous census to his mrge?.
6. What regiment was George Collins a member of? Check the Pembroke Dock Web site for regiments based in Llanion Barracks or Defensible Barracks, is it the same regiment as that which George Collins was in, if so you now know where George & Ann meet.
7. My understanding is that a certain very very few long service good conduct mrd O.R.’s where allowed family to live in barracks, these wives would earn income doing works for those soldiers also living in the same barrack block, it could well be that Ann Williams ‘resided’ with one of these families awaiting her mrge to George.
8. I have seen it written(speculated) but never substantiated that the census was taken over a far longer period that just 1 day/evening or night. This may be the reason that our direct family ancestor is shown in two entirely different locations in the same town in the same census.

The above is offered on the understanding that minds far greater than mine may well correct some/all of the above observations on my part.

Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[mosschops2]

Hi Orielbenfro

Many thanks again for your very thourough help.
George was originally from Abbots Leigh, I can trace his army career with the 47th regiment pretty accurately, and he was never at Pembroke dock.
 I think that Ann was possibly the daughter of another soldier. When George's children married they all said he was a carpenter but he was a soldier, so its possible that Ann could say her father was a mason when he was in fact in the army. I have searched for a Thomas Williams that would fit in the 47th regiment but there are no likely candidates. He could have been in another regiment though.
They married in 1858 and she accompanied him to Canada in 1862 so she was quite privileged. They had 3 children in all and the army carted them all over Canada.

Many thanks again for your help.

Mick.