Author Topic: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot  (Read 20073 times)

Offline missingmccabe

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 30 December 10 15:44 GMT (UK) »
3 patrons church hold my mother's baptim cert and st. kevin's hold her confirmation.  the GRO still has not updated my mother's birth cert, as i just got off the phone with them.  
Reeves, McCabe, Hogan

Offline corisande

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 30 December 10 15:47 GMT (UK) »
It is quite difficult to help you due to the complexity

Can you just confirm that you have your mothers birth cert and exactly what it says on it.

 Dates, names , places

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Offline corisande

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 30 December 10 15:52 GMT (UK) »
Birth certificates can and are altered under certain circumstances.

This is a UK rather than Irish example but my mother was born illegitimately Jane Evans, had a birth cert in that name, then 20 years later it was changed legally to Jane Pugh. It took me a long time to get to the bottom of the story as I had no idea that she was illigitimate, and the UK government took some convincing to release the second Birth Cert (story here)

I cannot follow in your tale where the "McCabe" has got in, if the birth cert says "McCann"
Grant in Tipperary
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Pugh in North Wales
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Offline missingmccabe

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 30 December 10 15:54 GMT (UK) »
i do have one of my mother's birth certs. It lists Florence McCann as mum born at the Rotunda on May 1 1934 they resided at Hollyfield buildings.  As did the adoptive mum 81 Hollyfield buildings.  the gro now wants to amend her birth cert to show josephine mccabe gave birth to josephine mccabe.  and 3 patron's church is stating (after not giving me the info) that my mum josephine mccabe was born to josephine mccabe.  I am not sure if someone is trying to protect an identity here. or sorting fact from fiction.
Reeves, McCabe, Hogan


Offline shanew147

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 30 December 10 15:58 GMT (UK) »
just to follow up on the Reeves family ...there's a John and Elizabeth Reeves living at 232 Mount Pleasant buildings on the 1939 Dublin City Electoral register.

 See http://dublinheritage.ie/electoral

Mount Pleasant buildings were in Ranelagh, and not that far from Hollyfield buildings which was on the outskirts of Rathmines close to Rathgar.



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Offline corisande

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 30 December 10 16:05 GMT (UK) »
You are not making this easy

1."I do have one of my mother's birth certs" You  imply that there is another. Is that for "Josephine Reeves"?

2. What date was the Josephine McCann one actually issued, and same for Josephine Reeves

3. I don't think I would subscribe to conspiracy theory here. If they have changed from "Florence McCann" to "Josephine McCabe" that may not be their "fault"
    I would suspect (from what you have told us) that her name was Josephine McCabe and that she gave a false name when she checked in to the hospital - understandable give the time and the place - Dublin 1934.
    Now the church has some reason to amend that. Perhaps some information has come their way recently.
  I suspect that your best way forward would be to contact the church by phone, and make it very polite - if you make accusations they will shelter behind the protection that the law gives them.. Ask them very politely why the name has been changed and the reason that you need to know.

Grant in Tipperary
Piper in Tipperary
Blong in Leix
Watson in Offaly
Pugh in North Wales
Evans in North Wales
Proctor in Edinburgh
Steedman in Stirling

Offline missingmccabe

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #24 on: Friday 31 December 10 01:38 GMT (UK) »
."I do have one of my mother's birth certs" You  imply that there is another. Is that for "Josephine Reeves"?
Answer: I have her old birth cert prior to the GRO amending it showing my mother Josephine McCabe her date of birth at 5/1/1934 to Florence McCann at Rotunda living at 81 Hollyfield Building and an add note that states this was hearsay from her adoptive mother stating this was the case.

2. What date was the Josephine McCann one actually issued, and same for Josephine Reeves
Answer: There is only one cert for Josephine McCabe and it was issued on 1/21/1966

3. I don't think I would subscribe to conspiracy theory here. If they have changed from "Florence McCann" to "Josephine McCabe" that may not be their "fault"
   I would suspect (from what you have told us) that her name was Josephine McCabe and that she gave a false name when she checked in to the hospital - understandable give the time and the place - Dublin 1934.
   Now the church has some reason to amend that. Perhaps some information has come their way recently.
 I suspect that your best way forward would be to contact the church by phone, and make it very polite - if you make accusations they will shelter behind the protection that the law gives them.. Ask them very politely why the name has been changed and the reason that you need to know.Answer: GRO stated it was hman error.  I am hoping.

Reeves, McCabe, Hogan

Offline corisande

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #25 on: Friday 31 December 10 08:59 GMT (UK) »
You have lost me again. To help you we need to get the facts and sequence straight. Is this what happened

1. A birth was registered in the name of Josephine McCann, child of Florence McCann. She was born 1 May 1934. And this certificate was issued in 1934. Is that correct and do you have the actual cert or have you tried to get it..

2. A second cert was issued on 21 Jan1966, in which the name of the child was Josephine McCabe and the mother to Josephine McCabe.
    GROs do not gratuitously change names unless someone pushes them.  A key question here is why would they have reissued the cert on that date. You mother was 31 and must have asked for the change. She would have had to provide proof. GRO will not make a change just because she said there was a mistake. What proof would she have supplied. Your mother must have had some "paperwork", what happened to it. Alternatively you could try to get from GRO reasons why the change was made and what paperwork they hold.

3. If the Reeves are stating the truth, and they registered the birth (the cert should say who registered the birth), the implication is that they did not know your grandmother very well. We could research the Reeves and see if there was a connection, but this is looking at there being no family connection.

4. Did you grandmother, "Josephine McCabe senior" then just disappear without trace.

5. "3 patrons church hold my mother's baptism cert and st. Kevin's hold her confirmation. " Do you have those, and what name do they have

6."the GRO still has not updated my mother's birth cert" The fact that a new cert appears to have been issued in 1966 to "Josephine McCabe". You need to check the 1966 GRO entries to see. The online records we have access to only go to 1958. You are in to the land of 2 "valid" birth certs, GROs will only release one of them, otherwise a person could legally have two passports in 2 names (reason UK GRO gave me). The original birth in 1934, registered as McCann will always remain, but they will refuse to issue a cert unless you supply a death cert to prove that you could not use both birth certs.

7. Reading what I have written, it appears to me that you have little "proof" that your grandmother was actually called "Josephine McCabe".The Reeves registered it as McCann.  The baptism was presumably done by the the Reeves as well. So where and from whom did the new info come in 1966 to make the GRO change the name is the key.
Grant in Tipperary
Piper in Tipperary
Blong in Leix
Watson in Offaly
Pugh in North Wales
Evans in North Wales
Proctor in Edinburgh
Steedman in Stirling

Offline shanew147

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Re: Josephine McCabe / Josephine Reeves - Old Camden St, Rathmines & Ballyfermot
« Reply #26 on: Friday 31 December 10 09:56 GMT (UK) »
can I just take a step further back - you already have two certs, and a baptism record... what other details are you looking for ?

The 'incorrect' details on the original Civil cert are not that surprising, it was not at all unusual for misleading for incorrect details to be given by for birth records by single mothers. Supplying false information may not have been an option for the baptism as it's possible that the priest knew Josephine's family (or the Reeves).

You mentioned earlier about this being an 'illegal' adoption - that's not quite accurate, since the process was only formalised by legislation in 1952. Before this all adoptions in (The Republic of) Ireland were informal arrangements.


Shane
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