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Author Topic: Where are my Scots ancestors?  (Read 11559 times)

Offline GuyMassey

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Where are my Scots ancestors?
« on: Sunday 02 January 11 16:03 GMT (UK) »
I am seeking information about my great-great grandfather William MacTaggart b.1829 Montrose, Angus d.1891 Lewisham who is listed as an East India Merchant in the 1871 and 1881 UK census. He married Elizabeth Lyall b.1837 Scotland d. 1908 Thetford. (I cannot find marriage details).

My great grandmother Catherine MacTaggart  .b 1856 d.1943 was born in Singapore. Her brother  Francis David MacTaggart b. 1865 d. 1905 also married into my family. He died onboard ship the same year as the birth of his only child Edmonds Francis MacTaggart.

I believe that the family was quite well respected in Singapore during the 1800s, but I have no information whatsoever about him or his ancestors in Scotland.

Any help piecing together this part of my tree would be most welcome.

Guy
Massey (London, Woking, Teignmouth), Massie (Banff, Aberdeen - Scotland) Sullivan, O'Sullivan (Kanturk Ireland, London, Woolwich) Mactaggart (Montrose, Angus, Scotland, Singapore), Thornhill (Surrey), Lyall, Walsh, Linehan, Holland, Langton, Armstrong.

Offline ev

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 January 11 10:04 GMT (UK) »
hi Guy  :)

can't see a birth for william mactaggart in angus

1841 arbroath angus(freeCEN Website)
charles smith 55
catherine smith 35
beatrice smith 25
george smith 2
catherine mctaggart 15 b. angus
william mctaggart 10 b. angus

which may match the following-
IGI
charles smith & catherine cay marriage 24th oct. 1835 old machar/st nicholas
aberdeen
george cruikshank smith born 11th jan. 1839 old machar aberdeen
parents charles smith and catherine cay

catherine cay and james mctaggart marriage 8th june 1823 montrose angus
children with named parents -
catherine jane mctaggart born 25th nov. 1826 montrose angus
james mctaggart born 12th july 1824 montrose angus

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline ev

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 January 11 10:23 GMT (UK) »
catherine jane mctaggart and william walker marriage 15th june  1852
arbroath angus

1881 rattray perth
william walker 68 cabinet maker b. arbroath
catherine walker 54 b. montrose
frederick walker 24 b. arbroath
jeanie walker 17 b. arbroath
catherine walker 12 b. arbroath
catherine smith 78 mother in law widow b. aberdeen aberdeen

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline ev

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 January 11 10:32 GMT (UK) »
scotlandspeople website has -
catherine smith(other surname cay) death 1886 rattray perth b. c1802

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline GuyMassey

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 January 11 10:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ev,

Thanks for these leads, I've been drawing a blank, but I'm not familiar with Scots records.

These would explain why William called his daughter Catherine.

What is the relationship between the McTaggart children and the Smiths, does it say?

Mac and Mc both mean "son of" were they interchangeable or was one a shortening of the other?

If Catherine and James are William's parents, was James also a merchant? Therefore could William have been born abroad too, just listing his BP as Angus on the 1870 census?

Is it possible to obtain copies of the original documents somewhere, if so please let me have a link.

Guy
Massey (London, Woking, Teignmouth), Massie (Banff, Aberdeen - Scotland) Sullivan, O'Sullivan (Kanturk Ireland, London, Woolwich) Mactaggart (Montrose, Angus, Scotland, Singapore), Thornhill (Surrey), Lyall, Walsh, Linehan, Holland, Langton, Armstrong.

Offline ev

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 03 January 11 11:00 GMT (UK) »
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

official paysite for census 1841 onwards and bmd's 1855 onwards
(freeCEN has free census transcriptions but is not complete)

pre 1855 bmd's are on old parish records(OPR'S) you can view them at
scotlandspeople but mostly they do not contain any more information than
the IGI(familysearch) that you can search for free

Mc and Mac often depended on who did the writing
keep this in mind when searching

there is no relationships given on the 1841 census but if you can find the family
still together on the 1851 census you should have better luck
(1851 for angus is not on freeCEN yet)

ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline DDJJake

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 03 January 11 14:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy
Did you not get my Personal Message with this and much more ?

ELIZABETH CAMPBELL LYALL
married WILLIAM MACTAGGART
on 04 JUN 1857  at  Maryton By Montrose, Angus, Scotland
Old Parish Record

Transcribed from GRo Image of Marriage ....

William Mactaggart [Widower] General Merchant aged 28 of Singapore, present residence Old Montrose
Father James Mactaggart [Corn Merchant][Deceased]
Mother Catherine Smith (formerly Mactaggart) Maiden Name CAY
married according to the Forms of the Free Church of Scotland
Elizabeth Campbell Lyall [Spinster] aged 20 of Old Montrose, Maryton Forfarshire
Father: David Lyall [Farmer][Deceased] Mother Elizabeth Lyall Maiden Name Lyall
Witnesses
Alex Mustard and James Lyall
Minister James Edward Carlile of the East Free Church, Brechin

DDJJAKE
Auchmutie, Ingles, Henderson, Fife, Patrick, Moffat, Collier, Hunter, McLeod, Cassells  in Fife
Henderson, Nicoll, Baxter, Hill in Angus, Nicoll in California USA, Australia
Henderson Cuthbert, Hendry in Perth, and NY State
Telfer, Walker, Rennie, Maclaren in Falkirk, Glasgow, Paisley, USA, Australia, NZ
Rennie in Winnipeg
Richardson in Lochmaben, Dumfries
Kerr in Midlothian, Stirling, Illinois, Ontario, Manitoba
Waddel in West Lothian, Ohio
McMillan in Argyll

Offline DDJJake

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 03 January 11 15:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy
To help others I have transcribed from source the following ... and pose a question or two ...
1881 Census for  Station Road Eltham, Kent, England
William MC TAGGART   Head   aged   52  born  Montrose, Scotland   East India Merchant 
Elizabeth Campbell (Lyall). MC TAGGART  wife  aged 44   born Brechin, Scotland   
Catherine MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged   25  born Singapore ****   
Alice M. MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged  21   born Singapore   
Frances D. MC TAGGART   Son  aged  15   born  Charlton, Kent, England    Commercial Clerk     
Anney J. MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged 13   born Charlton, Kent, England     
Eleanor M. MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged  12   born Charlton, Kent, England 
James G. MC TAGGART   Son   aged 10   born Scotland     
i.e. JAMES GUTHRIE MACTAGGART was born on 24 AUG 1870 at Tannadice, Angus, Scotland to WILLIAM MACTAGGART and ELIZABETH CAMPBELL LYALL 
Old Parish Record

Morrison L. MC TAGGART   Daughter   aged  9 born  Charlton, Kent, England     
Elizabeth L. MC TAGGART   Daughter aged   8 born Charlton, Kent, England     
Alexandra MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged  7 born Charlton, Kent, England     
P. Susan MC TAGGART   Daughter aged  6 born Charlton, Kent, England     
Colin Campbell MC TAGGART   Son aged  4  born Eltham, Kent, England     
Jane MC TAGGART   Daughter aged  2 born St Swithins, Middlesex, England       
Robert K. MC TAGGART  Son  aged 5 months born  Eltham, Kent, England       

 Mabel BYERS   Visitor   aged 12  born  Horsham, Sussex, England       
 Susan BOLTON   Servant  aged 31   born Marylebone, Middlesex, England   Cook (Dom)     
 Fanny AKERS   Servant aged  26   born Oxburgh, Norfolk, England   Housemaid     
 Alice AKEHURST   Servant  aged  25 born  Plumstead, Kent, England   Table Maid     
 Elizabeth BRENDAN   Servant   aged 16   born Plumstead, Kent, England   Table Maid     
Julia WATHAN   Servant  aged 38   born Stretton, Hertford, England   Nurse (Dom)

Also SUSAN MAUD MACTAGGART was born on 17 SEP 1863   Brechin, Angus, Scotland to WILLIAM MACTAGGART  and ELIZABETH CAMPBELL LYALL    ... who may have died before 1881
Old Parish Record

NB
Catherine MC TAGGART   Daughter  aged   25  born Singapore **** was probably a daughter of William's first marriage (in Singapore) where his first wife may have died ... and William came home and quickly married again .. before returning to Singapore until at least c.1866.

How does one find out who William's first wife was, as this is Guy's other Great Great Grandmother !

Did father James Mactaggart die in Singapore?  Catherine Cay came home to marry again in 1835.

DDJJAKE
Auchmutie, Ingles, Henderson, Fife, Patrick, Moffat, Collier, Hunter, McLeod, Cassells  in Fife
Henderson, Nicoll, Baxter, Hill in Angus, Nicoll in California USA, Australia
Henderson Cuthbert, Hendry in Perth, and NY State
Telfer, Walker, Rennie, Maclaren in Falkirk, Glasgow, Paisley, USA, Australia, NZ
Rennie in Winnipeg
Richardson in Lochmaben, Dumfries
Kerr in Midlothian, Stirling, Illinois, Ontario, Manitoba
Waddel in West Lothian, Ohio
McMillan in Argyll

Offline GuyMassey

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Re: Where are my Scots ancestors?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 January 11 10:48 GMT (UK) »
A massive thank you to all those who have helped to piece together some of this mystery for me, although there is still rather a lot of unravelling to do! Mainly, who then was my great great grandmother if not Elizabeth Lyall?

It strikes me that who ever she was she probably died in Singapore following the birth of my grandmother Catherine.

I have therefore written to the archives in Singapore in the hope that I may be able to find out more. Apparently there are streets and buildings baring the name MacTaggart... could there be an association?

Any information from anyone would be most appreciated.

Guy
Massey (London, Woking, Teignmouth), Massie (Banff, Aberdeen - Scotland) Sullivan, O'Sullivan (Kanturk Ireland, London, Woolwich) Mactaggart (Montrose, Angus, Scotland, Singapore), Thornhill (Surrey), Lyall, Walsh, Linehan, Holland, Langton, Armstrong.
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