Stewart and Young hawker families

[Hillgell]

Does anyone know anything about these families who were based in Cumbria (around Cockermouth)and Ulverston in the first part of the 19th century?  They were mainly earthenware and glass sellers, but the families had links into horse trading.  The families were very closely linked and wherever there's a Stewart on the census there's a Young nearby.  The families moved down to Blackburn and other parts of E Lancs in the 1880s. My great grandfather was Charles Stewart married to Sarah Young, but I'm not sure which Charles, as there are several. They used caravans to travel round (my grandmother remembered visiting them), but were based in houses.  I'd be grateful for any info.  Thanks!

[rob g]

hi, hillgel, the stewart family you are tracing are relatives of mine, they are related to the millers olso, and used to live in ulveston. in a place called the gill, up the top of the market cross. i viseted them  45 years ago and still remember them there is one relation issack stewart, living not far from me now in carlisle, he has a caravan site the youngs and stewarts were horse and scrap dealers as well as car traders. they are still trading in kendal you can see the ad in yellow pages. they are first cousin to my mother, and there are lots of youngs and stewarts still living in caravans. they are a very old romany name, they sold china and earthenwares,as did my own family the mitchells from barrow in furness, in fact they were related in marriage?the stewarts also went to live in penrith. and allthough not scots by birth,old jimmy stewart my mams first cousin went on to live and have a family in scotland where his decendents still travell  and live a romany life,see if you cannot find the miller and mitchell connections. also my youngest son wed a gypsy girl last year she is a harrison and relarted to the stewarts in ulveston?small world!

[Hillgell]

Hi Rob, 
Thanks for your prompt reply.  I was surprised to hear the families were Romany, as my grandmother always insisted they weren't, just travellers!!  Now I've looked it up Young is a big Romany name, but not so much Stewart.  My gt gt gdfather was Charles Stewart, but 2 were born in Ulverston a few yrs apart and I don't know which is mine-he married Sarah Y :)oung daughter of John and Jane.  My branch of the Youngs came from near Wigton and spent some time around Cockermouth and Broughton before moving to Blackburn.

I haven't seen any of the names you mentioned-it just looks like Stewarts marrying Youngs!  but both branches of the families settled in Blackburn and most eventually became weavers.  One family that are connected are the Bucks who were horse dealers in Hawes.  There is a grave with a horse's head on it in the church yard there.  It's the grave of William Buck who married Mary Ann Young.  Don't know if you've heard of that family.
Anyway thanks again for the info.
Hillary

[rob g]

hi, hillgell, yes i know the buck family, they sold eathenwares and were/ still are hawkers in fact i stayed next to william buck in my trailer. on a travellers site in skipton yorks 2 years ago. bill still hawks carpets, he is a very nice type, we have known his family for genarations. as to the traveller name thing, we we allways known as travellers, but when the new age thing came on the scene, for centurys we had tried to get away from the gypsy name. so we had to tell others that we were not new age travellers, but romany travellers, that go back many hundreads of years, we now dont mind the romany connection, but the older,travellers did the best they could to hide that fact.and would say to the gorgios(non romany) that they were just travelling. it as taken over thirty years for us to be able to use the name romany/gypsy. without some shame about it? a point in case is the amount of people that have contacted me saying that the family had tried to hide all gypsy or traveller conections, one old lady in wales had emigrated to canada to get away from the stigma, and her g.daughter was tring to find her traveller romany roots. sad old world is it not!just recently i was told i would not be served in my local because the landlord had found out i was a romany ! i have lived in a house for twentyfive years but still travel,never been in bother, and you would be amazed at the predudice that still is out there so that one or two of the reasons that the older folk would rather called travellers, but on the other hand a traveller would take real offence at the term gorgio,or flaty if it were used for them.anyway no more history,hope you find your links, and (cushty bok(good luck in romany,by the way if you go to scottish people site, you will find hundreds of stewarts mainly tinkerhawker or or traveller romany folk,  ..rob

[Hillgell]

Hi again Rob,

Well I didn't really know I came from Romany stock (a bit diluted), but it's quite exciting to find out!  I'm sorry you've had to face prejudice because of it.  People shouldn't judge others on face value or preconceived ideas and perhaps some of the judges should look into their own pasts, they might be surprised to find out where they came from!!

Presume the William Buck may be related to the one with the gravestone, but he must be the grandson as that one died in the 1930s. 
Hillary

[youngjo]

Hi Hillgell,

You have come to the right place for information.....I got a lot of help a month back trying to trace my connections.
My name is Young and my ggrandparents were John T. Young and Rachel Miller(Carlisle) and they lived in Hexham

Found this down the line and may be connected to your family...it is a stab in the dark

here is William (JT father) marriage to Elizabeth Stewart
Marriages Sep 1884   Hexham  10b 373 
 Coates  William     
Moorhead  Margaret     
Stewart  Elizabeth       
Young  William   

It may not be connected but ill have a look for those names in the info I got.
Joanne

[Hillgell]

Jo-thanks for your interest and help.

Don't know if our families are connected but that pair of names keep cropping up.
My 3xgt grandfather was John Young born in Wigton nr Carlisle in 1816.  He lived around Cockermouth for some yrs and then many of the family moved down to Blackburn, but went back to Cumbria from time to time.  One of his sons was called William, but he was born in 1848, a bit old to be married in 1884.  I will try and follow him up.  (Haven't seen a mention of him moving down).
My 2x gt grandma was his daughter Sarah who married Charles Stewart from Ulverston and her brother Jacob married Margaret Stewart, Charles' sister!

Sounds like you are connected to Rob, who wrote to me earlier's, Romany family of Millers.  If you see this, Rob, my Charles Stewart's parents in Ulverston I've now found, were George and Ann.

Do you know if your family were travellers or Romanies, Jo?  My father thinks that his grandmother Nancy Stewart was born in a caravan, tho her birth is registered to an addess in Cockermouth. 
I find it all fascinating!
Hillary

[youngjo]

Hi Hillary,
 I found out so much here but still no direct way to tell if my family were romany gypsies....my grandad left his family and moved away from them in the 1950s and had his own family but never spoke of his family to my dad so he never knew. They were all hawkers/pedlars or horse dealers and seemed to move around a bit, they were all very sallow skninned and my grandad was very dark and my dad is too.....I know its not much to go on but I believe either my grandad didnt want people to know he was a gypsy and that was the reason for all the mystery! Hope you find out more concrete clues than I have . Some of my dad rlatives are alive but we dont know them well enough as dad only found out he had relatives on his fathers side very recently, hopefully they will fill us in and all the pieces of the jigsaw can be put together.....I hope they can as I feel its sad that we still dont know and over the years I awlays asked Dad to find out...

joanne xxx

[rob g]

hi, again hillery, hello jo, when you try to trace romany travellers it is allways hard, as we are a secretive people. even today we have to keep our race to ourself, as it can cause problems,both in the business and private life. so it is not hard to see why we dont talk about some things, we do  and can pass for a gorgio /non traveller/, sometimes this is because we want to, and sometimes to get away from the predudice that follows us even in this day and age, lots of the older romany folk would not mention any thing about the ethnic race etc. also when the war was on in 1940 my mother was told not to say she was a gypsy becouse we knew what was going on in the death camps, long before the general public. so hiding your race or past was, and still is a part of gypsy life. hope you find what your after jo, and lots of romany are fair skinned, the eastern european gypsy are roma and dark, western europe romany are of the sinte clan, and nearly all british romany are the rom people, also light skinned, but there are dark ones too, cushty bok.  rob..