Author Topic: William and Johana Murphy  (Read 5440 times)

Offline ppym

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William and Johana Murphy
« on: Tuesday 11 January 11 18:29 GMT (UK) »
I am looking for a William and Johana Murphy, both born in Limerick (1831 and 1839 respectively). The area is not known. They went to Liverpool to live and are shown in the 1871 census return where William is listed as a shoemaker.They do not appear in any previous census returns there.
They had 2 children,Margaret,9yrs and John 7yrs.
Does anyone have such a William Murphy lurking in their records.
What was Johanna's maiden name?
Where did they come from?
Are there any relatives left?
Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks, P Pym

Online CaroleW

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 18:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

Son John aged 7 in 1871 becomes John aged 3 in 1881.  Birthplace is still shown as Ireland though

It could mean either of the following:

Enumerator error (it is a very clear 3 on the image)
The first John died between 1871 - 1876

The only death that fits completely with John's age was in 1880 but it can't be him as the younger John was b 1877/78

The only other one died 1872 aged 10

If they did have another son born in Liverpool - his birth cert will have Johanna's maiden name

RG11 Piece 3646 Folio 128 Page 25
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline shanew147

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:01 GMT (UK) »
The births of William and Johana are well before the start of full civil registration in Ireland in 1864, so you would need to check for available parish records to locate any details for them. To do this you would need to know where they came from in Co. Limerick ... ideally the parish. (I assume they were Catholic ?)

If John's birth was in 1864 he may have just made it into civil records..

see: Introduction to Irish Records

Since Murphy was a very common surname in Ireland you would probably need some more clues to try to locate the correct family. Maybe the place to start would be with the birth cert for one of the children born in England, as this would give you Johanna's maiden surname.

do you think they married in England or Ireland ?


Shane
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Offline shanew147

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:10 GMT (UK) »
it appears from the birthplace details mentioned by CaroleW's for John that the couple probably married in Ireland before moving to Liverpool. If they were Catholic that means they probably missed out on Civil registration... although that depends on those two children named John...

I was going to suggest looking for a marriage in England as that would have given you father's for the bride and groom


Shane
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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Shane

Both children were born in Ireland so marriage was probably there.  

Because of the age difference between William and Johanna - I checked freebmd in case she was a second wife but there is nothing in England/Wales in Liverpool



Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline shanew147

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:39 GMT (UK) »
here's the family in Liverpool in 1871 for reference :

RG10 / Piece 3796 / Folio 62 / Page 60

  Husband William age 40, shoemaker, born Limerick
  wife Johana, age , bookbinder
  dau Margaret, age 9, scholar
  son John, age 7, scholar

Place of birth is 'dittoed' for the Johana and the children.



Shane

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Shane

Quote
son John, age 3, scholar

John is shown as aged 7 in 1871
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline shanew147

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 19:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Shane

Quote
son John, age 3, scholar

John is shown as aged 7 in 1871


my mistake ... that's what I get for looking at the two returns at the same time..


Shane
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Offline ppym

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Re: William and Johana Murphy
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 11 January 11 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Carole and Shane.
You certainly know your way around!

I had missed the second boy called John..thanks for that.
I think that they were probably married in Ireland. The more recent families were all Protestant but an RC connection cannot be ruled out of course.

I was hoping that the less common name of Joana would be of some assistance given that Murphy is sucha high volume name. I will give it some thought..there has to be a way through somewhere.

Thanks for your help. Regards, Pauline