TURNER - Needham Mkt/Ipswich

[popo]

Thomas was the eldest son - it seems that he worked as a buidler in later life with a couple of boys helping him out. Thomas never seemed to rise to the status of his father, and by the time his son got married there was very little wealth in the family at all. I would have expected that Thomas would have been named in his fathers will as he was the eldest, so it seems mighty odd that he was missed out.

Do you know anything about the kind of house Simon lived in when he was raising his children or his background? It could be that their was an even higher status further back in the family tree as this period was not known for its social mobility.

Paul

[Greensleeves]

Hi again, Daisy Loo

Bearing in mind that Susannah was a wealthy woman in her own right, the 'housekeeping' element might well have consisted of telling other people what to do, rather than doing it herself.  It was quite common to employ people but not have them live-in so it is possible that she had daily staff who undertook her instructions.  On the other hand she might have been a woman who was 'not minded to marry' or she could have had a deformity such as a hare lip which nowadays could be dealt with but which then would have been a major handicap.

[Daisy Loo]

Greensleeves, you have made some good points, thank you.  the more we talk about her, the more she intrigues me!  I do hope my relatives find something in the records office. They have 2 sales catelogues, and a couple of photographs.  I have access to the GALE newspapers, and I have found numerous references in the Ipswich Journal relating to Simon Turner (Paul, I can send you all this information if you wish) - one in particular I treasure, as it relates to the 50th wedding anniversary of Simon & Harriett, and how the family celebrated it with them.

Where else could I look, to find more information about these people?

Paul, Thomas was not named in the will.  The only children to be named, was Walter Chapman one of his younger sons (and my direct ancestor) and his daughter Susannah.  Walter was one of the Executors.  He was not singled out in what was left him though, that was just Susannah.  After she had been given a certain amount, the rest of the estate was to be shared out between ALL of the siblings, including Susannah again.  So she got another share!  Thomas appears to have taken over his father's business however, and this can be seen in adverts from the Ipswich Journal, (These are online through GALE), where Simon Turner announces his retirement, and that his son Thomas was taking over.  Also detailed in the will, were references to mortgages etc, so I wonder how much estate was actually left once things had been sold etc.  Perhaps Simon was in debt?  I haven't yet managed to get back further than Simon so I don't know his background yet.  I keep digging 

[Daisy Loo]

Simon Turner, aged 72, was buried in Ipswich Cemetery on 31st December 1883.

I would have thought that a man of his apparent wealth would have a substantial gravestone. Very likely other members of the family, such as the unmarried daughter Susannah, woul also be buried with him, and that you would obtain useful information from the inscriptions.

Dave

Following up on this, I sent an email to the Ipswich Cemetery.  They got back to me today.  Simon Turner is buried there, they have given me his plot number, and maps as well.  He also owns two plots besides his own, where 3 of his children are buried.  I am going to try and find someone who could possibly visit the cememtery.  So thanks for that suggestion.

[hlyons]

@Daisy Loo:
   I'm a little late to the party on this whole genealogy thing, but I am intrigued.  Simon TURNER was my Gt GT Grandfather, and I too have a copy of his will, recently discovered as I clean out my parent's house after my mother's death this past January.  I too wondered about Susannah, and am thrilled to find all the information that you have.  I didn't even have Simon's birthdate - I discovered his approximate birth year on line just yesterday. 

I'm sorry I can't help you much about Susannah - my Gt Grandfather was Simon's son, George Simon Turner, (b. 1843, died 10/25/1908 in Sheffield, Illinois)  He married Mary Bridget Collopy - not sure whether it was back in Europe or in the States, and oral history says she was Irish, perhaps from Limerick, born around 1848.  I have George Simon's discharge papers from the British Army (Royal Engineers)- he was a sapper serving in Canada, and bought his freedom near Quebec in 1871 after a total of almost 5 years of service in England and Canada.  I've run across family letters that say that he stayed in New Jersey for a period with his brother Edward, then went back home, came back and was married, lived in Massachusetts where my grandmother was born, and eventually settled in Sheffield, Illinois.  He had 6 children - 3 boys, 3 girls.  Sadly, my grandmother passed away when my Dad was just 7 years old, so this digging into the family history is a challenge!

As for the will, and property, I do have  an original notice on a small piece of paper "To be sold by Auction, at the White Horse Hotel, Ipswich, On Wednesday, 5th
March 1894, at Seven o'clock in the Evening precisely, by direction of the Trustee for Sale under the Will of the late Mr. Simon Turner, In Sixteen Lots"  Along with a copy of the will, I have a copy of a letter from Brother William Turner to George which I've tried to attach here, in which he states:
 "Now George, I want to give you the tip not to build Castles in the air for I would not give the five cents that stamps cost for your share in the Estate for it have been a swindle & a fraud all the way through you ought to have been in it for father have told me many a time that the yard in Bond Street was yours but Jonny Morgan have got a claim on it that is what poor old Jim's home for mortgage." 

   It doesn't make a lot of sense, and I really must spend more time trying to decipher it, but he continues to talk of a swindle, and he refers to the Executor, Walter - I'd be happy to share the letter with you.  Attached to the back of it is a listing of the Woodbridge Road Estates  in the 16 lots that were sold at the White Horse Hotel.   I can only think that perhaps Simon was hugely in debt, and the property all needed to be sold to settle the debt?  I'll continue to search through family letters and see what else I can glean about the Turners.

   I was thrilled to see your post as I just "googled" Simon Turner and Ipswich history, and lo and behold, I learned so much!  I see that you reside in Galway, Ireland.  My daughter, now 23, studied there for a semester in the fall of 2009 and we visited - it was beautiful!  I currently live in Clive, Iowa, a suburb of Des Moines, Iowa.

   Thank you for sharing all your Turner history - it has helped me immensely.  I guess we are cousins!

[Daisy Loo]

Welcome to Rootschat Hlyons...delighted to "meet" yet another cousin....in the ever expanding tree, in an ever shrinking world! 

I haven't been doing the family tree for a while...as real life has this way of taking over!  (Last year I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis and am in the process of trying all the drugs to settle it down!)

However, very excited to learn of you, and your letters.  The family greatly interests me. 

I am just heading out for the day, but over the next couple of days, I will try and round up all the information I have found.  To be able to exchange emails, you'll need to post on this forum (this thread will be fine) another could of time, and then you can send me a private message, which you can do by clicking on the little green scroll under my avatar.

Look forward to sharing our history!

[Daisy Loo]

This is for Popo... (hasn't been online since early 2011, hope they get this )

Have just found the will online for Thomas Turner, son of Simon Turner.  It doesn't really tally up with the poverty that you thought though...so am sure the will is well worth getting.

TURNER Thomas of Ipswich Builder died 1 Jan 1902 Probate Ipswich to Mary Turner Widow and Thomas William Turner builder and George Francis Josselyn gentleman Effects £4493 1s 1d.

Also, in the 1881 census, he was a builder employing 6 men, and two boys...again, not poverty.  Hope this is of some use to you.

Added:  now we have the poverty part...there is also a will online for Thomas William Turner, and he only left €47 to his wife.

It always amazes me how fortunes change from generation to generation.

[hlyons]

Thanks Daisy Loo for the helpful hints on how to exchange emails.  Will do on posting on this thread a few more times to earn that right.  I appreciate all info you have and there is certainly no hurry.  I totally understand that "real life" stuff, and am sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but will send positive thoughts and prayers your way and hope that the medication helps.

I will also continue to dig through Mom and Dad's Turner family stuff and will share anything I can find that may be of interest.

[lisap172018]

Hi, sorry to jump on this thread & completely appreciate it was some time ago but wow, this is fascinating. I was looking into Simon Turner as his name came up whilst searching some history on my house. I believe I am living in one of the many houses he owned in Ipswich.