Author Topic: ROBBY BOY  (Read 21929 times)

Offline JustLooking

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 08 February 11 22:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi you two - Ms heavy lifter here  ;D

Could one of you summarise what is needed, please,  as I might be able to twist someone's arm/ask nicely for some post-1812  lookups.

JL
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Offline Rol

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 06:05 GMT (UK) »


Hi JL :)


That sounds enticing!  Excellent if you can deploy some local help with this.  But I should probably cede paramountcy on what lookups are wanted to Lorrae,  as original poster.  Plus I am now feeling a bit agnostic on the best next step (beyond ascertaining Thomas's age-at-death in the period 1841-51) -- in the light of Lorrae describing her "11 June 1833" for Robert Davies's birth/baptism as LDS-sourced.

Out of habit I tend not to think of the IGI &c as much use for most of N Wales,  because of that ancient row the LDS had with the Church in Wales -- though I occasionally hear tell of scanning progress in more recent times,  since they reached a truce.  (Not sure when the results of that are going to be released.  Perhaps already started.)

Anyway,  as you may already have seen,  the old IGI brings up no useful hits for Robert 1831-3 in Merion.,  but four candidates in Denbighs.  On looking at the one (?)cited by Lorrae,  I more than ha' me doots:  a Wesleyan baptism at Ruthin,  with mother's maiden name showing as Philips.

But . . . there is another bapt.,  on 30 June 1832,  for parents listed as Thomas Davies and Jane,  at "Derwen by Corwen";  batch is C090161.   That did catch my eye,  bearing in mind last para of my Reply 16.  Do you remember how to discover (from the Hugh Wallis site,  the LDS Salt Lake Library catalogue,  or otherwise) the full batch source description?   Unfortunately a search for others with the same parents turns up little else there;  but of course people did swap preferred christening venues quite often in that period.  The place is oddly labelled;  still,  pro tem. I am guessing that the entry comes from the Anglican BTs rather than one of the nonconformist chapels.

Struck me as at least worth checking further.  What think you?


R



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Offline JustLooking

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 08:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rol

I recall the refusal of the Church in Wales to allow the Church of LDS access to the records. The agreement finally reached  was for them to film the BTs. The online records are particularly sparce in the areas that I'm interested in and,  because of this, I  have hardly used them. Thank goodness for the Clwyd transcripts! Also, of course, one can order the BT films via the local LDS FH Centres.  The new pilot site does look promising. However, we are also faced with a high percentage of non-conformity (and a vast number of missing records in this category). I'm stymied in both Llansilin and the SE Merionethshire parishes because of this  :(

I'm not sure what info you require about batches but you can either go to Hugh Wallis

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0br1/

or check the listing here:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0br0/



JL
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Offline bonehunter

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 17:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi JL and Rol

I think now I maybe totally confused.  ::) ::)
I did see the record  for THOMAS DAVIES AND JANE PHILLIPS on LDS so assumed that they were Roberts parents as I couldnt find anything else. It would be great to find a marriage but think that might be askin for a miracle haha
I find it confusing as on the censuse Robert born different places
I have sent for Thomases death cert by so hopefully that will shed a bit of light on my tree   :D :D.

Thank you both  ;D ;D

Lorrae
Davies,Tattum,Evans Thomas,
Humphreys,Jones,Roberts flintshire/denbighshire
 Bassett and Tanser of Leicestershire


Offline Rol

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 21:58 GMT (UK) »


Hi both,


JL,  many thanks for that info.  I was being slow-witted and had forgotten that one could jump directly to the full description of the batch's source in the FHL catalogue simply by clicking on the Source Call No. (right beside the batch no. at the foot of the individual search result page).  Your second link duly took me to that same place,  and enabled me to cross-check it against the IGI result page for Robert Davies (Derwen 30.06.1832).  Which did fortunately confirm my assumption that the entry was extracted from Derwen BTs,  via the old filming work done in the early 1950s.  Quite why someone decided to entitle the IGI batch derived from that film differently,  as "Derwen by Corwen",  remains obscure;  but it becomes a non-issue now the batch's link to the Derwen BT film is clearly established.

I wish I could fill you in better about the new LDS filming project on Welsh PRs.  All I know is what a chap told me two years ago,  last time I managed to get to Ruthin RO.  He had a hi-end digital filming rig set up in the old main reading room and was filming the original of a PR.  He told me he was doing it p.p. the LDS and that peace had broken out between them and the C in W,  on the basis that individual parish incumbents retained a veto-of-conscience,  but (subject to that) the default position of the RCB in Cardiff was now broadly permissive.  I have not sought to find corroboration of that from elsewhere -- so it could easily be wide of the mark.  But I wait in hopes of hearing about a press launch!  (And,  as I wrote above,  that could already have happened for all I know.)

So,  back to the substance (from Lorrae's standpoint):

Hi JL :)
...
IGI brings up no useful hits for Robert 1831-3 in Merion.,  but four candidates in Denbighs.  On looking at the one cited by Lorrae,  I more than ha' me doots:  a Wesleyan baptism at Ruthin,  with mother's maiden name showing as Philips.

But . . . there is another bapt.,  on 30 June 1832,  for parents listed as Thomas Davies and Jane,  at "Derwen by Corwen";  batch is C090161.   That did catch my eye,  bearing in mind last para of my Reply 16.  ...  Unfortunately a search for others with the same parents turns up little else there;  but of course people did swap preferred christening venues quite often in that period.  ...

... What think you?


Lorrae,  I do apologise if I have sown any confusion!
Ref.
I did see the record  for THOMAS DAVIES AND JANE PHILLIPS on LDS so assumed that they were Roberts parents as I couldnt find anything else. ...

As you correctly concluded,  for my part -- and it will be interesting to hear whether JL thinks any different -- I was sceptical about that IGI entry being the right one,  once I realised it must be the one you meant.  Against it already was the fact that it appeared in the register of a chapel at Ruthin (though that was certainly not decisive,  given the size of early Wesleyan circuits).  Then the implied 1841 census age for this child would be seven rather than the actual nine (one year off usually seems OK to me -- but with a child I get a bit more doubtful when the gap rises to two years).  There seem to be none of the other known Davies siblings in the batch.  And Philips is a rare-ish name in the Llandderfel area.

As both JL and I have commented,  IGI coverage in N. Wales is generally very thin (because of the filming restrictions deriving from theological objections to what was perceived as "baptising the dead"),  so the absence of any other IGI options carries little probative value.

None of which means that the Ruthin entry is the wrong one,  just that my bet would be against it without more evidence.  And,  as you know,  for now my eye has been caught by the possibility at Derwen.  Plus who knows what Gwyddelwern PR or the other non-conformist registers may hold inside their covers.

Ref.
I find it confusing as on the censuse Robert born different places
Yes,  he was certainly pretty erratic about what he told the enumerators.  But my guess all along was Gwyddelwern,  and as JL noted in bold print,  he did revert to that in old age (1901).

Ref.
I have sent for Thomases death cert by so hopefully that will shed a bit of light on my tree.
Hope you were able to obtain a decent steer from the registrar at Ruthin about the right entry for Thomas (curious to know how much info he/she vouchsafed over the phone about the chosen entry). :)


Rol


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Offline bonehunter

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #32 on: Friday 11 February 11 14:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rol and JL

Rol, I sent for the death  cert for Thomas Davies by letter as I work all day and didnt have access to a phone.
I gave them all the reference numbers that Rol gave me and today I recieve a cert. This is the only one out of the ref numbers that corresponded to the ages I gave them. It reads
      Thomas Davies found dead on the  9th January 1847 at Melin y Wig in the parish of Gweddelwern
      aged 67 occ Labourer. cause of death Interference to cold.
I think that this is my Thomas all though his occ from Miller to Labourer is a bit confusing.
Hopefully I am a bit further on than I was with the exceptional help from you and JL  ;D ;D  which is very much appreciated     :) :) :)

Lorrae
Davies,Tattum,Evans Thomas,
Humphreys,Jones,Roberts flintshire/denbighshire
 Bassett and Tanser of Leicestershire

Offline JustLooking

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 12 February 11 00:03 GMT (UK) »


 I've just found another Thomas Davies of the same age in Gwyddelwern on the 1841. This one is an ag. lab:

HO107/1428/15/11/13

So it could well be the one whose death cert you have.

Who was the informant on the cert?


JL

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Offline JustLooking

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 12 February 11 00:22 GMT (UK) »
Jumping the gun,I was.

He's still there on the 1851 so the death cert could be correct!

I'm puzzled by the miller to labourer though

JL
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Offline hiraeth

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Re: ROBBY BOY
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 12 February 11 03:37 GMT (UK) »
Hello Lorrae

What does the death certificate for Thomas DAVIES in 1847 say about who reported the death?

In 1851 there is this entry Mill, Bodorlas, Merioneth
HO107/2509/241/7
Magdalen PRICE, head, widow, age 46, Miller born Llanfor Me
Hugh PRICE, 15, miller's son, born Corwen
Grace PRICE, 18, miller's dau, born Corwen
Robert PRICE, 9, miller's son, born Corwen
Robert DAVIES, 20, occ Miller, servant, born Gwyddelwern
John ROBERTS, 15, Mill carrier, servant, born Corwen
Richard WYNNE, 13, Mill carrier, servant, Llansanffraid
David DAVIES, 23 occ Miller, visitor, born Gwyddelwern

Ref the baptism of Robert DAVIES June 1833 at the Mill Wesleyan Chapel Ruthin indicates that he was the son of Thomas DAVIES but Thomas is identified as a Shoemaker on the Blackwell Index CD from the Clwyd FHS.

Heather
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