ROBBY BOY

[Rol]

... Ruthin Register Office ... kindly sent a form back stating there is a Thomas Davies and Jane Jones son Isaac born 1840 at Llanhaeadr yng Nghinmeirch, it also says that Thomas was a farmer and not a miller as stated on the 1841 census. ...
What are the possibilities of this Thomas being mine who knows and then on the other hand am wondering whether to purchase the cert 

Having looked at things a bit further,  I'd say "No, don't bother."   I think it is just another of those coincidences sent to try us all.

Reason is that this other Isaac appears in his own 1841 census entry at Llanrhaeadr-yng-Nghinmeirch,  in a household headed by Thomas Davies, 50,  and Jane Davies, 35.  They lived at a farm called Bryn y Gwynt Isaf in the township of Segroit.  (See HO107/1402/12 fo.9r&v pp.10-11.)  They are still there in 1851,  though by then Jane was a widow and poor Isaac had been pushed out to work for the next-door neighbours.

All of which said,  it is certainly disappointing that we are little further forward with the real Isaac's birth cert.  (For the record,  could you post the dates and refs. of the two blanks you drew?)  Hope someone else gets inspired with a new thought about how to track down the missing entry.  To me it really is beginning to look as though the parents may have been civil registration "slackers" after all.  Which would of course make his baptism the only surviving trace of his arrival in the world,  just as it would have been pre-1837.


Rol

[Rol]

Scrolling back a bit . . .

I'm still trying to puzzle out the occupation given for Jane Davies on the 1851.



The index has it as 'Nitting' but I'm not convinced . ...

I agree it does look a bit odd,  but the enumerator appears to use the same way of forming his initial capital Ns elsewhere in the census book.  See, e.g., Nephew on p.7 (three lines from bottom).  It is pretty hard to work out a viable alternative reading.  It does not look much like his H,  as one can see from the many examples of the word Head (and of course "hitting" would make nonsense anyway).

If one taps "nitting" into Google there do seem to be many examples of the "K" of Knitting being dropped,  whether through ignorance or as a space/time-saver.

So for now I would stick with "nitting" -- though only faute de mieux.  Woollen stocking knitting was,  of course,  a big cottage industry in N. Wales for much of the 19th c.


Rol

[bonehunter]

Hi Rol
Thanx for that, its very infuriating when you think you found someone and ends u a stone wall  .
The North Wales BMD refs are Denbighshire south (Ruthin) DNB/01/65  1840 and Elidan/01/26 1839 that one belongs to a Thomas Davies and a Elizabeth Morris.
I agree it dissapointing at not being able to find Isaac they certainly havent made it easy 
Lorrae

[Rol]

Thanks for putting up those N Wales BMD refs,  Lorrae.  Will help save anyone else from duplicating searches you have already made.

I am trespassing a little onto your request-prerogatives here;  but pending a WO 22 lookup result -- and in response to this earlier kind offer from JL

Hi you two - Ms heavy lifter here 

Could one of you summarise what is needed, please,  as I might be able to twist someone's arm/ask nicely for some post-1812  lookups.

 -- I hope that you agree that it would offer a good chance of progress if someone with access to the microfilms (held at Ruthin,  Hawarden and Aberystwyth) were able to check out Gwyddelwern and Derwen PRs for us,  in the hope of finding the baptisms of Thomas and Jane Davies's children between the years 1825 and 1845 (and especially your Robert's ca. 1832).

*          *          *

I have had a spare library half-hour to dip into a couple of sources myself.  No finds,  but still best to record the results.


1.  Meirionnydd Marriage Index 1813-37 -- fiches produced by Gwynedd FHS,  listing marriages parish by parish:

Only had time to look at the sections for Gwyddelwern and Llandderfel.  No pre-1830 marriages between a Thomas Davies and a bride forenamed Jane.

Of course the wedding could have occurred in another Merionethshire parish;  but those two had seemed the most likely.  So drawing a blank there perhaps strengthens the odds in favour of a Denbighshire wedding.


2.  Derwen PR to 1812 (CFHS transcript):

Obviously too early for the children or marriage of Thomas Davies the future Llwyn y Brain miller.  But I thought it worth checking the notion that the occupants of the mill might often have used Derwen church in preference to Gwyddelwern.  Found these four examples in the period 1800-12 (reverse date order):

1811  BUR   John Jones,  Melin Llwyn y Brain,  Gwyddelwern,  22 March

1810  BAPT  Margt. da. John Jones & Eliz.,  Melin Llwyn,  Gwyddelwern,  14 May

1809  BAPT  Jane da.  Hugh Edwards & Jane,  Melin Llwyn y Brain,  22 July

1801  BUR   Jane wife of John Humphreys,  Melin Llwyn y Brain,  15 April


3.  Baptism of Thomas Davies,  1780 ± 3 years:

No candidate events found in PRs for Derwen or Gwyddelwern (per CFHS transcripts).


Rol

[bonehunter]

Hi all you helpful people out there.

I have a major dillema I have just discovered  a big booboo in my research 
I have my Gt Gt grandfather Robert Davies as marrying a Bella Griffiths at the Parish Church Mold Oct 16 1853. On the cert it states that Roberts father was Thomas Davies (miller) which means he is still alive as it doesnt state  desceased . I have a death cert for Thomas dying 1847, I thought that Thomas was Roberts father as stated on the 1841 census, if that is so then the marriage cert I have is not for my Robert or the death cert I have is not for Roberts father 
Furthermore aon going through my records I came across some communication I had had with someone researching Roberts son Richard and they had Thomas Davies (1841 census )as Roberts grandfather.
I am totally lost and confused after spending a long time trying to find Roberts parents.
Can anyone out there give me any  guidance as to how to solve this problem

Thanx  Lorrae