MURRAY, (Lees, Moffat,) lookup please.

[Alexandrina]

Hi Kate,

If you have the 1851 census for Selkirk, could you please lookup a family by the name of MURRAY?

John MURRAY age about 30; born 1821-1823 in Selkirk.
married Helen MOFFAT in Selkirk -Banns Innerleithen in 1851

Helen's daughter Helen should be about 6-7 years old (from previous marriage.) Helen MOFFAT was aged about 35  in 1851.

I am trying to locate their address and also John's father James MURRAY.  John's mother Elizabeth HALL died in 1821-23 circa so James Murray probably married again.

If John & Helen are not in the 1851 census then the marriage (also 1851) probably took place later in the year, so I am wondering who John was living with prior to his marriage to Helen Moffat, and also if there were any brothers & sisters.

A son of the above couple named William Murray born 1855 in Selkirk married Elizabeth Lees born 1859. They were my GG Grandparents.

Thank you

Sandie

[worth]

Hiya,
I have had a look for your people, there is only one John Murray aged 28 born in Selkirk and living as a lodger with a Nichol family, they were living on Water Row in Selkirk, hope he's the right one. Also there are 3 James Murrays in that area,

1) James Murray aged 52 married to an Isabel, he was a labourer by trade.
2) James Murray aged 53 married to Jane, he was a stocking weaver they were living in southport in Selkirk.
3) James Murray aged 53 married to Margaret, he was a writers clerk and they were living on New Road East in Selkirk.
I hope this has been some help to you, let me know if you need any more help.
Dawn

[Alexandrina]

Dear Dawn,

Thank you very much for this, I have been researching this family for 20 years with no luck. I came to Scotland in 1990 & 1995, went to Selkirk, took notes that were rather ambiguous once I returned to Aust.

In 1841 James Murray and Isabella STEWART ? lived in Scotts Place Selkirk.
They were married in 1832.

Living with them were some children and JOHN MURRAY age about 19. I assumed that this John , being so much older than the other children, could be the son of James Murray & Elizabeth HALL (who died 1823 circa) and James must have married again. I am presuming that this was Isabella Stewart.

I did research this family accordingly; the young daughter Isabella  MURRAY listed in the 1841 Census married Andrew STENHOUSE in Edinburgh. He was a BAKER.
Isabella MURRAY - Stenhouse also died in childbirth with 1st daughter, also Isabella. (Sounds familiar).

I am supposing that our John is this John; or JOHEN MURRAY who married Helen MOFFAT in Innerleithen & Selkirk 1851. But I could be wrong. I don't know the exact relationship as I dont think it was listed in the 1841 Census. Could be an Uncle-Grandfather  I suppose.

Do you have a copy of that 1841 Census Dawn?

I am wondering if James Murray who was living with Isabella , was at an address in Scott's Place. Was he born in Selkirk?  How about Isabella? I think the 1851 census might state where born.

Re the Nichol family. The wife Nichol might be a sister of John? Do you have their names/ages /where born/ please Dawn? I will check on familysearch.org for MURRAY-NICHOL marriages.

The James MURRAY married to Jane . of SOUTHPORT SELKIRK is also interesting as John's 1st daughter was named JANE MURRAY, and Jane runs in our family. I don't know why he never had a daughter named Elizabeth after his mother Elizabeth HALL; as in  the naming tradition.

Also; Do you have access to Innerleithen Peebles census Dawn?

If so, is there a:
 
William Moffat - Shepherd
Helen Moffat -Ms Rintoul
Helen Moffat b 1815
and family ?

Thank you once again for your excellent help.

Sandie

[Alexandrina]

Dear Dawn,

I checked the Nichol family of Selkirk.
JAMES NICHOL married MARGARET MURRAY about 1833
They had 5 children including William Murrray Nichol.
Was that the family that you mention from the 1851 Census?

Please let me know.

Thank you
Sandie

Dear Dawn,

Thank you very much for this, I have been researching this family for 20 years with no luck. I came to Scotland in 1990 & 1995, went to Selkirk, took notes that were rather ambiguous once I returned to Aust.

In 1841 James Murray and Isabella STEWART ? lived in Scotts Place Selkirk.
They were married in 1832.

Living with them were some children and JOHN MURRAY age about 19. I assumed that this John , being so much older than the other children, could be the son of James Murray & Elizabeth HALL (who died 1823 circa) and James must have married again. I am presuming that this was Isabella Stewart.

I did research this family accordingly; the young daughter Isabella  MURRAY listed in the 1841 Census married Andrew STENHOUSE in Edinburgh. He was a BAKER.
Isabella MURRAY - Stenhouse also died in childbirth with 1st daughter, also Isabella. (Sounds familiar).

I am supposing that our John is this John; or JOHEN MURRAY who married Helen MOFFAT in Innerleithen & Selkirk 1851. But I could be wrong. I don't know the exact relationship as I dont think it was listed in the 1841 Census. Could be an Uncle-Grandfather  I suppose.

Do you have a copy of that 1841 Census Dawn?

I am wondering if James Murray who was living with Isabella , was at an address in Scott's Place. Was he born in Selkirk?  How about Isabella? I think the 1851 census might state where born.

Re the Nichol family. The wife Nichol might be a sister of John? Do you have their names/ages /where born/ please Dawn? I will check on familysearch.org for MURRAY-NICHOL marriages.

The James MURRAY married to Jane . of SOUTHPORT SELKIRK is also interesting as John's 1st daughter was named JANE MURRAY, and Jane runs in our family. I don't know why he never had a daughter named Elizabeth after his mother Elizabeth HALL; as in  the naming tradition.

Also; Do you have access to Innerleithen Peebles census Dawn?

If so, is there a:
 
William Moffat - Shepherd
Helen Moffat -Ms Rintoul
Helen Moffat b 1815
and family ?

Thank you once again for your excellent help.

Sandie

[worth]

Hiya,
It was John Murray that was living with a Nichol family not James Murray, the family are:
Micheal Nichol Head Married 29 Gen Lab Born Selkirk
Eliza Nichol Wife 33 Born Unknown
William Nichol Son Unmarried 5 Born Roxburgh Wilton
John Nichol Son 3 Unmarried Born Selkirk
Robert Nichol son Unmarried 10m Born selkirk
John Murray lodger Married 28 Gen Lab born selkirk.

I think this could be the Nichol family you mentioned:

James Nichol Head Married 47 Journeyman Mason B.Selkirk
Margaret Nichol Wife 44 B.Roxburgh Jedburgh
Janet Nichol Dau Unmarried 14 B.Selkirk
William Nichol Son 7 B.Selkirk
Helen Nichol Dau 4 B.selkirk
Margaret Nichol Dau 2 B.Selkirk

Their address was Broomhill Cottage Selkirk.
Hope this helps.
dawn

[Alexandrina]

Thanks Dawn,

I can't find any information on Michael, they must have been too poor to register births. Cannot find his marriage either so don't know if Elizabeth his wife, was a Murray or not.

Funny though. John's wife Helen Moffat is not mentioned here. She was born in 1815-1816 Melrose.  John & Helen were just married when the Census took place .
(2 Months)  She was conspicuously absent for some reason. Helen's family were related to the BAIRDS of Gartsherrie in Lanark and her parents were from Melrose, Innerleithen & Temple Midlothian, I think her father WILLIAM MOFFAT was a Shepherd.  Helen married John MURRAY in Selkirk & Innerleithen in February 1851

I don't suppose that you can see a Helen Murray anywhere on your census can you?

Thanks again for all of the help. Will search more on the Jedburgh Murrays just in case.

Cheers
Sandie

[worth]

The only other Helen Murray in  Selkirk was 6 years old. Sorry about that. She wasn't in Galashiels either as i have just checked for you.
Dawn

[Alexandrina]

Thanks once again Dawn,
No luck...Helen must have gone home to mother in Innerleithen to pack her bags for the move to Selkirk. Her mother was Helen Rintoul or Rentoul who married William Moffat... she also had relatives in Dumfries Shire, so I shall check there too once Scotlandspeople finally get the 1851 census online.

Otherwise ...that John Murray that you have found living with the Nichols family may not be my fellow after all, perhaps mine were in Melrose section of Roxburgh.

Cheers for now

Sandie

[Alexandrina]

Dawn, Thank you for your help to date on those Murrays in Selkirk 1851.

Could you please let me know the exact address of the James Murray age 52 living with Isabella.

Also; were they living with anyone else?

Waiting hopefully

Sandie