Ray, Isabella,Hardwick William

[rosieM]

You can get mothers maiden name on the early birth registrations on the GRO web site you just need to register if you have not already  (also ages at death)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

I have Grace Hardwicks it gives Ray. I've searched all day today and can find no link to the name Palmer/Parmer/Parma. I've very little hair left    I think Granny just gave her Granny's name, Parnham and it wasn't heard correctly.  Granny wasn't very literate as far as I remember. Wouldn't have spelled it out. . cuppa time for me

[osprey]

there's a possible baptism for Elizabeth, oldest daughter of William & Elizabeth. Her birth was registered sept qtr 1868 Portsea Island and the Catholic baptism in St John's Cathedral, Portsmouth is for Elizabeth born 26 July 1868, bp 5 Aug, daughter of William Clayton & Elizabeth Hardwick, no maiden name given. One of the sponsors is a James Hardwick.

There's a parish marriage at Portsmouth 26 Jan 1863 for James Clayton Hardwick and Naomi Swailes, both of 6 Tower Street, both of full age, he is a shoemaker, father James Clayton Hardwick, also a shoemaker, her father John, a tinman.


1861 census Winchester Street, Salisbury RG9/1316 folio 113 pg 26
James Hardwick head mar 49 cordwainer b. Kingston upon Hull
Elizabeth wife 43 b. Sutton Ashfield
James son 20 cordwainer
Mary dau 15
William son 10
Robert son 8
Charles son 4
all children born Hull

However the births of the children are registered in various places
James Clayton Hardwick sept qtr 1840 Hull vol 22 pg 391 - bp 9 Aug 1840 Sculcoates RC
Anthony Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1843 Hull vol 22 pg 422 - death reg june qtr 1844 Hull
Mary Ann Hardwick june qtr 1845 Hull vol 22 pg 252
William Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1847 Northwich vol 19 pg 193
Robert Clayton Hardwick june qtr 1851 Reading vol 6 pg 252 - he was born 14 June 1851 and baptised 16 November St Michael & the Holy Angels RC West Bromwich
Charles Clayton Hardwick sept qtr 1856 Worcester vol 6c pg 258
Frederick Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1854 Belper vol 7b pg 423 - death reg dec qtr 1854 Potterspury
mother's maiden name on all the registrations is Monsier/Monsieur
James Clayton Hardwick married Elizabeth Monsier 26 April 1836 in St Peter Ad Vincula, Stoke on Trent

The son of William & Isabella was registered as James Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1877Poole vol 5a pg 294 mmn Reay


With the way this family moved around, it's no wonder William was unsure of his place of birth. 

One problem with this is that there is a death reg for William Clayton Hardwicke aged 48 dec qtr 1894 Poole vol 5a pg 156
So, perhaps the James that Isabella is with in 1901 in Bath is William's brother. His age is nearer that of James. Death reg James Hardwick aged 64 dec qtr 1906 bath vol 5c pg 313.
Previous census for him as a hawker in Poole 1881 RG11/2095 folio 111 pg 33 with wife Mary. No sign of Naomi after the marriage, no remarriage to Mary that I've found so far...

I suspect that Isabella didn't marry William or James, there is a possible death reg in Bath
Isabella Ray age 79 march qtr 1931 Bath vol 5c pg 690


 

[osprey]

1851 census St Albans, Herts HO107/1713 folio 373 pg 17
James Hardwick lodger 37 traveller b. Yorks, Kingston upon Hull
Eliza^th wife 33 traveller b. Notts, Sutton
Eliza^th dau 12 b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
James son 10 b. Kingston upon Hull
Mary dau 5 b. Kingston upon Hull
William son 2 b. Monmouth

 

[rosieM]

there's a possible baptism for Elizabeth, oldest daughter of William & Elizabeth. Her birth was registered sept qtr 1868 Portsea Island and the Catholic baptism in St John's Cathedral, Portsmouth is for Elizabeth born 26 July 1868, bp 5 Aug, daughter of William Clayton & Elizabeth Hardwick, no maiden name given. One of the sponsors is a James Hardwick.

There's a parish marriage at Portsmouth 26 Jan 1863 for James Clayton Hardwick and Naomi Swailes, both of 6 Tower Street, both of full age, he is a shoemaker, father James Clayton Hardwick, also a shoemaker, her father John, a tinman.


1861 census Winchester Street, Salisbury RG9/1316 folio 113 pg 26
James Hardwick head mar 49 cordwainer b. Kingston upon Hull
Elizabeth wife 43 b. Sutton Ashfield
James son 20 cordwainer
Mary dau 15
William son 10
Robert son 8
Charles son 4
all children born Hull

However the births of the children are registered in various places
James Clayton Hardwick sept qtr 1840 Hull vol 22 pg 391 - bp 9 Aug 1840 Sculcoates RC
Anthony Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1843 Hull vol 22 pg 422 - death reg june qtr 1844 Hull
Mary Ann Hardwick june qtr 1845 Hull vol 22 pg 252
William Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1847 Northwich vol 19 pg 193
Robert Clayton Hardwick june qtr 1851 Reading vol 6 pg 252 - he was born 14 June 1851 and baptised 16 November St Michael & the Holy Angels RC West Bromwich
Charles Clayton Hardwick sept qtr 1856 Worcester vol 6c pg 258
Frederick Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1854 Belper vol 7b pg 423 - death reg dec qtr 1854 Potterspury
mother's maiden name on all the registrations is Monsier/Monsieur
James Clayton Hardwick married Elizabeth Monsier 26 April 1836 in St Peter Ad Vincula, Stoke on Trent

The son of William & Isabella was registered as James Clayton Hardwick march qtr 1877Poole vol 5a pg 294 mmn Reay


With the way this family moved around, it's no wonder William was unsure of his place of birth. 

One problem with this is that there is a death reg for William Clayton Hardwicke aged 48 dec qtr 1894 Poole vol 5a pg 156
So, perhaps the James that Isabella is with in 1901 in Bath is William's brother. His age is nearer that of James. Death reg James Hardwick aged 64 dec qtr 1906 bath vol 5c pg 313.
Previous census for him as a hawker in Poole 1881 RG11/2095 folio 111 pg 33 with wife Mary. No sign of Naomi after the marriage, no remarriage to Mary that I've found so far...

I suspect that Isabella didn't marry William or James, there is a possible death reg in Bath
Isabella Ray age 79 march qtr 1931 Bath vol 5c pg 690


 

You certainly know your onions! Impressed. I've spent a day gleening nothing. I think there was a wedding for William and Isabella. 1881 where's down as a fisherman. I agree James is the brother. You reminded me I once thought that.  Another thing, iv hunted for wed cert for her dau Grace and Samuel Price.. Nothing. Tried every combo.. Excess years.. Nothing. Wondering if they ever wed at all? That would be rich after the names my granny called me and my mother🤮 and I WAS born in wedlock😉 thank you for your very hard work. I'll go through it all in the morning. Still no hint of why my uncles say their mams mam was a parmer... Very odd. Nite nite x

[osprey]

Wasn't it a baptism where William was noted as a fisherman?



No obvious marriage for Grace to Samuel Price. Maiden name is noted as Hardwick on the some of the birth regs and Price on others.

 

[rosieM]

Wasn't it a baptism where William was noted as a fisherman?



No obvious marriage for Grace to Samuel Price. Maiden name is noted as Hardwick on the some of the birth regs and Price on others.

 

Oh yes. Your right. I misunderstood about baptism. But thought I'd seen a marriage 1881. Trouble is you sort of get boggled eyed. Iv actually only just began putting the tree on line again after losing all the info from when started. Hoping to get it together(I've 3 months) and then print it off my end, leaving the tree on line to add to over time🤗 ps I don't think Sam & Grace married. Army records give his brother as next of kin.. Yet he names 3 children (no wife) I have granny's cert.. Jane Price ummm. Once more many thanks. Its so good knowing there are people like you who will help🤩

[rosieM]

Wasn't it a baptism where William was noted as a fisherman?



No obvious marriage for Grace to Samuel Price. Maiden name is noted as Hardwick on the some of the birth regs and Price on others.

 

Oh yes. Your right. I misunderstood about baptism. But thought I'd seen a marriage 1881. Trouble is you sort of get boggled eyed. Iv actually only just began putting the tree on line again after losing all the info from when started. Hoping to get it together(I've 3 months) and then print it off my end, leaving the tree on line to add to over time🤗 ps I don't think Sam & Grace married. Army records give his brother as next of kin.. Yet he names 3 children (no wife) I have granny's cert.. Jane Price ummm. Once more many thanks. Its so good knowing there are people like you who will help🤩

Osprey, is it at all possible to track someone say from 1917 say? The last birth for these two was 1917 Rose Hannah.  Only looking at Graces Husbands ARMY records 1915 again, I see he puts yes, then crosses it out, and puts no, to being married. His address was Peterborough. He also puts his brother Reuben Price (already serving in ARMY) as his next of kin. Suggesting to me there may well have been a split . He also names his three girls, but that does not mean they live with him I guess. This might be where the Palmer connection was if Grace had a dally or set up with someone else. But I have not idea how to find this out. Just a thought. I hope I don't irritate you by keep asking things x

[osprey]

If the family are moving around, Samuel probably wouldn't be on the electoral role.
Have you looked for Grace & Samuel on the 1939 register? We're not allowed to give you details from it.


There's a Price birth with Price as maiden name in Lexden registration district who may have been named for his uncle. I won't give details in case he is still alive, though there is a possible death in 2003 in Kings Lynn.

[rosieM]

If the family are moving around, Samuel probably wouldn't be on the electoral role.
Have you looked for Grace & Samuel on the 1939 register? We're not allowed to give you details from it.


There's a Price birth with Price as maiden name in Lexden registration district who may have been named for his uncle. I won't give details in case he is still alive, though there is a possible death in 2003 in Kings Lynn.

I'll have a peek at 1939 😉 thanks. Enjoy your evening 🙂