Author Topic: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia  (Read 19271 times)

Offline majm

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 19 June 11 01:05 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RChat, Sevendays...

If you post twice more you will be able to exchange Private Messages (PMs)....   You could post two replies on this thread  :)

I am not a Kempson descendant, but like several other RChatters, I have tried to help Martin re KEMPSON on several threads.  Henry has been "elusive". 

You mention another marriage for him and in NZ and some info about his father, Thomas... Perhaps you can give some details BUT please don't mention any living names though as that's a NO NO here at RChat.

Here is a link to one thread ... perhaps you have a copy of Henry's m.c. to Ellen .... I feel sure that Martin would be appreciative of details from that... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529148.msg3842988.html#msg3842988

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Martin Harmer

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 19 June 11 02:46 BST (UK) »
Hi sevendays,
I would be most interested in any info you have on Henry Kempson snr and his parents.
We do know he left SA and went to Vic. but did not know he ended up in NZ.

Regards Martin
Harmer, Kempson, Kiesler, Oakland, Payne, Crowle, Sutherland, Tulloch, Ward, Benfold, Donovan, Brooks, Smith,

Offline majm

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 19 June 11 03:16 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

I note that in March 1860 a Helen KEMPSON aged 40 was a passenger out of Victoria and into Otago/Auckland on the ship Gil Blas.   I know that “Helen” and “Ellen” as names that are frequently “interchangeable”

The Argus of 16 March 1860 has the Gil Blas as a brig of 172 tons, the voyage to Auckland, with the captain as J BUTT
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5678982 
Of the outward passenger lists that have survived, some are indexed at this link: http://210.8.122.120/indexes/index_search_results.asp

A question of Martin if I may .... Have you obtained a copy Henry Kempson’s marriage to Ellen Yuille, and if so, what details are on it please ?

The NZ marriage would most likely be 19 July 1875, Henry Kempson to Eliza Winter HARVEY.  I have not noticed a death for Henry's second wife Ellen/Helen .... A printout of that 1875 marriage should show if Henry was a widower.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline sevendays

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #30 on: Monday 20 June 11 02:48 BST (UK) »

Hi Again
I sure Henry wanted to be elusive as he was still married to Jane Winfield back in Nottingham who died in 1891

Henry died 24Th July 1907 Timaru New Zealand.
Henry married Eliza Winter Harvey 1875 Moeraki New Zealand
Henry had married Ellen Yuille in 1856 who died around 1865 and Elizabeth Parker  married 1842 and died in 1847.
The only two Australasian children were Elizabeth's Henry and Frederick. Both Henry jn and frederick had large families.

I will send some details on Thomas next time.

Regards

Sevendays

Offline majm

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #31 on: Monday 20 June 11 02:55 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

So Henry married, in the following order :

Jane Winfield
Elizabeth Parker
Ellen Yuille (this would be likely her second marriage)
Eliza Winter Harvey

 :) Am I speculating that that his marriages to Elizabeth, Ellen and Eliza were all bigamous... or do you have further information to show that Henry had formally sought to end any of those marriages...

 :)  Do you have any documents to confirm this is all for the same Henry Kempson ... perhaps marriage certificates  :)

Cheers,  JM

 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Martin Harmer

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #32 on: Monday 20 June 11 08:45 BST (UK) »
First I've heard of Jane Winfield ?
If sevendays is interested I can send her info on Henry snr
I'm very interested in hearing more !
Harmer, Kempson, Kiesler, Oakland, Payne, Crowle, Sutherland, Tulloch, Ward, Benfold, Donovan, Brooks, Smith,

Offline majm

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #33 on: Monday 20 June 11 08:56 BST (UK) »
First I've heard of Jane Winfield ?
If sevendays is interested I can send her info on Henry snr
I'm very interested in hearing more !

Hi Martin, 
 :) Sorry, but Jane Winfield / Kempson is noted several times on your KEMPSON thread at this link ..... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529148.0.html   and http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529147.0.html
 :) I am interested in learning of the information on the marriage certificate for Henry Kempson and Ellen Yuille...

Cheers,  JM

EDIT TO NOTE
I had duplicated the thread posts, and have now corrected that

 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #34 on: Monday 20 June 11 11:02 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

A lass named Jane Winfield, daughter of Thomas and Sarah Winfield was baptised at Ruddington, Nottingham, on 16 April 1811.  This information should be reliable as it is based on extracted parish records, transcribed by volunteers, diligently transcribing all the parish records from that parish

A lad named Henry Kempson, son of Thomas and Charlotte Kempson was baptised at East Leake, Nottingham, on 29 March 1816.  This information should also be reliable, as it too is the work of volunteer transcribers.

In late 1838 or early 1839, a birth for Thomas Winfield KEMPSON at Ruddington, Nottingham ought to have been registered with the civil authorities. A copy of thatbirth certificate ought to show that  his parents were Henry and Jane Kempson  I say apparently because I do not have a copy of the civil registration for that birth, but I encourage the descendants to contact each other to see who has a copy, or to search for the reference number and follow it up with a purchase of that certificate.   I had found the index of the baptism for Thomas Winfield Kempson, with parents as Henry and Jane Kempson, baptised  03 Dec 1838 at Ruddington, Nottingham.  Again I note that the baptismal records should be reliable as they are the work of volunteer transcribers. I put that baptismal information on one of Martin’s threads earlier this year.

On census day 1841, Jane Kempson aged 26, and Thos W Kempson aged 2 and John Winfield aged 6 are at the same address as each other, but there is no Henry Kempson at that address.  I transcribed that census information for Martin on the thread:  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,529148.0.html at reply # 8, with the sightings on the census for 1851, 1861, 1871, etc  and I followed up with further information about Thomas Winfield Kempson who if I recall correctly followed his maternal grandfather’s work as the registrar of births, deaths, marriages .

1 Is it likely that the marriage of Henry Kempson and Jane Winfield occurred around the time that civil registrations were being introduced in England?
2. Is it likely that the father of Thomas Winfield Kempson left Jane before the 1841 census and came to Australia. 
3. Is it likely that this same Henry Kempson then married in South Australia to Elizabeth Parker .... a copy of the marriage certificate may help resolved that apparent dilemma.
4. Is it likely that this same Henry Kempson then moved from South Australia to Victoria and married the widow, Ellen Yuille, a copy of that marriage certificate should help resolve that apparent dilemma
5. Is it likely that this same Henry Kempson went to NZ without Ellen?
6. Is it likely that this same Henry Kempson married in NZ to Eliza Winter Harvey ... a copy of either the ITM or the printout of the marriage certificate should help resolve that apparent dilemma also ...
7.Is it likely that the this same Henry Kempson is the chap who (OOPS, MISTOOKEN alert see Replies # 46 & 47 on this thread !)......edit to adjust  to INSERT "whose son , Thomas Winfield KEMPSON" was baptised at Ruddington in 1838 .... if so he would have been approaching 90 (not 70 as originally typed, but 90) years of age when he died in NZ...  I have not found that death on the NZ BDM online index, but I note that sevendays has it as 24th July 1907 at Timaru...  A copy of his death certificate should help in that instance too.

My one main theme in my own family history researching is always that for any information to be relied on, the information should be checked against official records.  It is not sensible to rely on any submitted record unless it has been checked against information that can be shown to have been independently collected by persons not associated with the family.  So for instance information available online from the UK census images is more reliable than information based on reading a book written by someone who has relied on a family member’s recollections.  Information about a persons date of birth as found on a birth certificate would be more reliable than information on a school record, or as remembered by a family member even of the same generation, and later generations are only relying on their own memory  perhaps of conversations overheard in their childhood. 

I apologise again for this long post.   BUT finally, who is Henry snr that Martin mentions ....
Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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Offline Martin Harmer

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Re: KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia
« Reply #35 on: Monday 20 June 11 11:22 BST (UK) »
Seems to be the wrong Henry as he came to south Australia in 1840 !
Harmer, Kempson, Kiesler, Oakland, Payne, Crowle, Sutherland, Tulloch, Ward, Benfold, Donovan, Brooks, Smith,