James Howe, and son? Joseph Howe

[nhh]

I am likewise trying to find a connection between James Howe and Joseph Howe. I am new to this so I'm not sure w/ whom I am posting. However, any information is appreciated, from any source. The web is a plethora of conflicting information. On geni-web it shows James married to Rebecca Dailey. It further shows Joseph's middle name a William. How fun if I am finding distant relations! I am also curious if access was allowed to the cemetery at Sunnyside. I would love to be included in this thread if anyone is still checking it. Thank you. Nancy

[tewilso]

Nancy,

The internet claims that James Howe had issue with Joseph is false. All documented sources say that Howe died without issue. I posted earlier about a niece of James Howe, the daugther of his brother William Howe, was listed as the sole survivor of the family of Lt. Gen. Emanuel Scrope and Ruperta Howe, in an addendum to the will of Emanuel Howe that was posted 1747 - in addition, I mentioned that the family papers related to Mary Howe, in an earlier post, also explictily indicate that James Howe died without issue. These can be ordered from the U-Nottingham library. Also, I have obtained the wills (Pregoative Court of Cantbury) of James Howe's uncle, another Emanuel Scrope Howe, and all of his children and wife's wills as well, and it is clear that there was no Joseph Howe linked to them. I hope this is not disappointing, but facts are facts. There is a possibility that J. Howe of VA may be a Joseph Howe, son of John Howe. This English J. Howe was born in 1704 however and was probably too old to have been the American Joseph Howe.

[nhh]

I should apologize for making you repeat yourself. I had previously read this thread and then on a lark last night decided to see if I could get a response. Upon a re-read, I see that you go back 6 generations to Joseph. If I am not being too forward, are you descended from Eliza (Lily) Tyler and Henry Harrison Wilson? Also, did you go to Sunnyside? Were you allowed access? I also saw that med Nell was a descendant. It's just fun to find others, with whom I would never have had an opportunity to correspond, with a common heritage.

And no, I am not disappointed. I liken this to a mystery novel. I generally don't put one down easily until completion. I'm impatient. I have always heard that the relationship to the crown was an illegitimate one and I'm still hung up on reading that Joseph was the "son of James" though I'm not certain now where I read it. (Gov. Tyler perhaps) I'm pondering if this indeed could be the case; if the birth was not in Hampshire County plus, who was Rebecca? Someone had to get her name somewhere. James died in 1728 and I show Joseph being born either in 1720 or 1729. Whichever, this would not preclude James. I also suspect that an illegitimate birth would be whispered, but not written. Your thoughts?

I also have a copy of a typed statement, signed by R.D. Howe, which gives the story of Joseph being the brother of George Augustus Howe and the top of the statement says "As taken from Westminster Abbey". Curious.

My initial search led me to "if legends are true" which showed him born in Effingham, Surrey. However, that familysearch.org leads to a Joseph in CN. There is confusion in this link but it does mention the Baronet of Compton.

I also used it for a specific birth year of 1729 which led to: Joseph How, christened 4-7-1729 in the Parish of Shrimpling, Suffolk County. This Joseph's parents being Joseph and Elizabeth.

The information on geni.com shows Joseph being born in Warwickshire. It gives the names of who added the information and who it is managed by (whatever that means) and I will see if I can get a response as to where this information came from and any substantiating evidence.

I'm sure I have added very little, if anything, in this pursuit and I apologize for my lack of brevity. I welcome further correspondence from you. I would just like to be able to give Joseph a family prior to his arrival in the states. Best Regards, Nancy

P.S. I'd also like to clean up the other threads if the mystery is solved.

[tewilso]

Nancy,


Please see my earlier posting about a Netheravon manor sold by a Joseph and Elizabeth Howe in early 1700's  - Google this and you'll pick it up on the British history URL. Coincidentally, John Howe, Lord Chedworth of the Compton Howe's also owned properties there as you will read. I also found the Shipping birth but didn't pursue as I recall. This would be interesting connection if verified.


Thomas


PS I haven't yet visited Sunnyside. My ancspestorvwas Joseph's youngest daughter, Rebecca Howe who married a Daye.

[MDfromIndiana]

I am new to this thread, but very intrigued.  I am descended from Joseph Howe (c. 1727-1794) and Elenora Dunbar (c. 1730-1790) of Sunnyside through Ann "Polly" Howe and her husband Robert Paris.  I, too, have looked at the conflicting information on the internet connecting Joseph to the Howe and Scrope families of England.  Contributors to this thread seem to be well-researched.  While it seems clear there is nothing definitive, what is your "best guess" as to the English connections of Joseph, if any?

[tewilso]

Thank you for the continuing interest. In my opinion, unless James Howe, the son of Lt. Gen. Emanuel Scrope Howe and Ruberta Hughes, had issue that was never recorded, nor acknowledged by the 1741 addendum to the will of his father (and also addressed in the Smith-Bromley family papers as noted above), then I believe there is no evidence that he was in any way related to the Viscount Howe and the Baronet Howe family. I have obtained also all of the wills of the Viscount Howe (brother to Lt. Gen. Emanuel Scrope Howe) family (again see above) and there is no mention of a Joseph Howe anywhere. Now, he may be a Joseph Howe, the son of an English John Howe (disowned in ~1737 in his father John's will that I obtained from the Prerogative Court of Canterbury website), who was born in 1704, but that would make this Joseph probably far too old to be our man. Another avenue for investigation is one Joseph and Elizabeth Howe, who sold a manor in Netheravon to a member of the peerage (above) ~1737 (see above). Our man's first two children were also named Joseph and Elizabeth.

Question for you: Do you know if a daughter of your ancestor, Mr. Paris (Pearis? spelling) and your Ann Polly Howe, was named Ruperta?? That would be a VERY intriguing clue if it can be verified (vis-a-vis James Howe issue). I've seen Ruberta listed as such online at the Bergen County, NJ Historical site, but I believe it is just an error.

Good hunting!

Thomas

[tewilso]

The Ruperta Howe (normally named Ann (Polly)) who purportedly married a Mr. Pearis: See this link

http://www.njgsbc.org/files/familyfiles/p1623.htm#i51218

Again, I believe it to be incorrect claim and that Ann Howe was actually her name, as MDIndiana states.

[tewilso]

More detail of The Warwickshire link is given in the book "Americans of Gentle Birth" on p. 258 that summarizes the geneology of the Howe surname in early America .... "John Howe of Marlborough MA, who was the son of John Howe of Hodinhull, Warwickshire, Eng., connected with the family of Lord Charles Howe, Earl of Lancaster. John Howe of Hodinhull was in Sudbury MA in 1639, and was the first white man to settle in Marlborough."

Not the same family as the Baronet Howe's of Compton.

[nhh]

I will preface this with - I am a blonde. The more I read, the more muddled I become.
I have also neglected to write down my cites. I fear many of you might find me to be more of a drag than a help, but I appreciate your patience and please endure with me, if you can stand it.

In "Listen to the Mockingbird" there is no mention of a Ruperta, only Ann. It goes on to say she had a son, Robert Howe Pearis, who was in the Kentucky legislature (Allen County) in 1828-1830 and 1840. I add this in case there are any loose ends on descendants and the off chance there could have been a Ruperta later. One of Joseph's granddaughters was named Rutha.

Since the family is fond of utilizing the same names over each generation, I like where you are going on the John and Elizabeth connection. However, I am confused by Netheravon and Netheravon at Haxton. I seem to keep missing Haxton in my read and Netheravon keeps leading back to the same family, as previously stated. In other words, what am I missing? Alternatively, is this all that has been found on John and Elizabeth thus far?

Along the same lines of family names: James doesn't appear to be one but Rebecca was used. (I haven't completely dismissed the illegitimacy theory, until better evidence comes to light).

By virtue of a cursory read (somewhere on the internet) the Howe genealogy book published, if I recall, in 1929 stated that there was no direct link between Joseph and the others in the U.S. which I would suspect to be true since he came over on his own. My point, I suppose, is we need to keep plugging away at England. Best regards and thanks. Nancy