James Ible (Ibell Iball?) MOLD

[sandfie]

I would like to post this lookup request please - will buy the parish registers from Clwyd FHS if it seems worth it.

James Ible (or variant spelling)
Born around 1785 hopefully in MOLD

Joined the Royal Horse Artillery in  1805 and perhaps fought at Waterloo. Discharged 1816 Married 1818 to Martha Griffiths at St. Mary Chester. First census 1841 living in Childer Thornton, Wirral.


Would like to confirm baptism record and perhaps get parents.

Many thanks to anyone who can help find the baptism or help confirm any of this.

[hiraeth]

Hello Sandfie

There are quite a few entries for IBAL families in the Mold baptisms. 
The only James IBAL baptism listed at Mold parish between 1773-1797 was in 1797 - too late for yours. 

However there is a baptism for a James EUBULE Jan 22, 1786 (at 7 weeks) father John mother Rebecca (LEWIS) abode Bistree.    There are several EUBULE entries as well but I'm not sure if this name would be considered within the acceptable range of spelling variation or a totally different family?   

HTH
Heather

[sandfie]

Fabulous, that is so helpful. I think I will go with the Eubale's being the correct family as there are some records in familysearch that say that this is a mutation. I also think it is correct because his first daughter was called rebecca so it being his mum's name makes sense.

Don't suppose you have the marriage of John Eubale and Rebecca around 1784 does anyone?

Thanks again.
Stewart.

[johneowens]

I have several direct ancestors with the family name Eubule/Eabuel/Eubale/Ibale, all of which relate to the same family name. Of course, in the 18thC parish clerks and enumerators in the 19thC were often semiliterate, and hand wrote semi legibly but I’m wondering how to account for such a variety of spellings for what I suppose is a name that would have been typically spoken with more or less the same pronunciation, with a north Wales accent and possibly/probably by Welsh speakers. (Not sure whether Bistre, Mold was a Welsh speaking area in the early and late 18th-19thCs.) So, surely, for example,  Eubule would not have been pronounced the same as Ibale by folks in the Mold area.

Can anyone help me out, please, by spelling out how the name would be pronounce phonetically? And/or suggest how we end up with such a wide variety of spellings?

Best wishes

John

[Peterej]

If you look on the Clwyd Family history society site, press on miscellaneous, then genealogy links, then local links near the bottom and lastly names from Clwyd - you should find exactly what you are looking for.
Best wishes
Peter

[Peterej]

Sorry I meant to add click on the letter I and it gives a load of variations of the name and the parishes to find them.
Peter

[johneowens]

Many thanks, Peterej. A brilliant source, and most helpful.

I guess the author of http://www.clwydsurnames2.uk/I.html decided to list all the variations he/she found under Ible, as the commonest use today. I am correct, please?

However, going back to my specific query: do you or anyone else know whether or not all these variations recorded by numerous parish clerks/census enumerators (Ible, Ibell, Abell, Ebill, Eiball, Eible, Eubal, Eubale, Euball, Eubel, Eubele, Eubil, Euble, Eublo, Eubul, Eubule, Eubules, Eubull, Eubuloe, Eubulus, Eubuly, Eybel, Eyble, Eybule, Hibal, Ibal, Ibale, Iball, Ibble, Ibel, Ibell, Ibil, Ible, Ibyll, Isal, Ubal, Ubel, Ubell, Ubil, Ubill, Ubule, Ibyll) are all derived from the same name? And pronounced the same? but thanks to the limitations of the various recorders and the use of Latin, English, and Welsh, are spelled different?

Has anyone any further thoughts, please?

Many thanks and best wishes

John

[Raybistre]

There are a few entries for Ibell Lloid and one for Ibyll Lloyde in the first volume of the Clwyd Family History Society's transcript of the Mold Parish Registers. The earliest entry is the burial of Elnor dtr of Ibyll Lloyde in 1614. In Volume 2 of the transcripts there is a burial for a Eubull Lloyd in 1638. Possibly the surname Iball is a patronymic.
Ray

[johneowens]

Thanks, Raybistre

Yes, like most Welsh names, I would think Iball et al are patronyms. But what a mystifying variety of spellings and, presumably, pronunciations.

Best

John