Author Topic: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines  (Read 6183 times)

Offline jcbhydro

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John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« on: Friday 18 March 11 00:28 GMT (UK) »
Good Evening,

I am searching for details of the birth of Kate Leat who married Frederick Luckman in Bath in 1860. Her father is quoted as John Leat, Drum Major. She has given her date/place of birth as 1835/Stonehouse or Plymouth in census records from 1861 to 1911.

There is no Kate Leat in the baptismal records for the '3 Towns', but there is a marriage of a John Leat to a Mary Weeks at Plymouth St Andrew on 16/7/1822.
The only baptism I can find is of Elizabeth Leat in June 1823, with the father being a Royal Marine Corporal.

I have also found census records for 1841 - 1861 for Mary Leat with daughters Mary, Caroline & Emily. The mother Mary is shown as a widow in 1851 & 1861.

I have an unsubstantiated hunch that Caroline is my Kate Leat, only for the reason that one of her daughters was christened Kate Caroline.

I have also seen an old (2008) Rootschat posting from 'Julied' referring to the marriage of an Emily Leat, daughter of Drum Major John Leat.

I would be extremely grateful if any subscribers could provide me with some assistance in finding some further positive information about John Leat and his family.

Kind regards, John Bennett

Offline superspark

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #1 on: Friday 10 July 15 13:31 BST (UK) »
John Leat

John Leat was born in Plymouth on 3rd September 1798. He joined the Royal Marines in 1812 as a drummer boy, serving for 34 years rising to be a Drum Major and was discharged on 28th June 1846 from the ship HMS Actaeon. The records describe him to be 5ft 9ins, brown hair, hazel eyes and fair complexion. He was then registered under number 297,843 in the Register of Merchant Navy Seaman, as a Master at Arms, responsible for security and law enforcement on a merchant ship.

The parish record of marriage for St Andrew’s, Plymouth shows that John Leat married Mary Weeks on 16th July 1822. A daughter Mary was born in 1830, probably when John Leat was based in Woolwich. Two daughters, believed to be twins, Caroline and Emily were born in 1836 in Plymouth.

The 1841 census for East Stonehouse, located in the now south eastern suburb of Plymouth, shows an Emily Leat, who is 5 years, to be a daughter of Mary Leat a needle woman living in Barrack Street, East Stonehouse, near the Marine Barracks. No father is listed, but Mary Leat is shown to be living with two other needle women, in addition to her other children: Mary age 10, John age 1 and Caroline age 5, the same age as Emily and possibly her twin sister.

Emily Leat is my great grandmother on my mother’s side.

Vic Pheasant

Offline crimea1854

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #2 on: Friday 10 July 15 14:36 BST (UK) »
Can I make a correction, Lohn Leat was serving as a Master at Arms, not on a merchant ship but on HMS Actaeon. The seaman's ticket notes his death as 5/1 1847, this ticket was issued at Ascension on 28 June 1846.

Ancestry has his navy (not RM) service record (ADM 29/034/425), from first joining HMS Southampton as Master at Arms on the 15 August 1840. This record also confirms is death as 5th January 1847.

I certainly think it would be worth ordering a copy of the following: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14224523 since these applications sometimes included family as well as service information. I suspect that John Leat jnr. also went on to serve in the Navy.

Martin

Offline superspark

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 August 15 15:53 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your correction. I do have that record but I am bit confused as to why a ‘Seaman’s Ticket’ was given for an RN seaman, or why it was issued at Ascension Island. I have noted that HMS Actaeon left Plymouth for the African coast in December 1844, so that would tie in. It would also account for my not being able to find a death certificate for John Leat; I presume that he was buried at sea. He may be shown in the RN records as being a Master at Arms to join HMS Southampton in 1840 but, when his daughter Emily Leat married George Leate, the widowed son of RM Drum Major William Leate in 1853, he was like wise listed as a Drum Major in the Royal Marines. The marriage certificate shows Emily’s s age to be 22, but from census records, I think it was nearer 16/17. (That Emily Leat – no ‘e’, married a George Leate – with an ‘e’, has caused some confusion in my family research!)

The 1851 census shows Emily Leat to be supposed a 19 year old servant to a Plymouth family whereas the 1841 census shows her to be age 5 living in East Stonehouse with her twin sister Caroline mentioned earlier in this blog. So marriage may have been a means of escape. But, strangely, she gives birth to a daughter, Emily Caroline in September 1856, but no father is shown on the birth certificate! Then an August 1858 marriage certificate registered in Bermondsey, records the marriage of an Emily Leate (now with an ‘e’) at age 24 and a widow, to a George Williams a sailor (who could read and write; Emily ‘made her mark’.). Emily’s father’s name is shown as being ‘John Week, a soldier’, while George Williams’ fathers name is given as ‘John Williams a draper’. The 1861 census then shows her to be living in Dawlish as the wife of George Williams with daughter Emily C and son Edwin, born in 1860, all lodgers with John and Betty Thurkettle. George Williams’ place of birth is given as Charlton, Kent. Thereafter, the family can be traced through census and birth certificates to addresses in Cardiff, then Birmingham and finally West Bromwich, where George dies in the Union Workhouse in 1895 age 59, and similarly Emily in 1907 age 75. In several entries, George Williams gives his place of birth as being Plymouth but, like in the 1861 census, he gives an alternative ‘Cork, Ireland in 1891’. It gives the impression that he did not want to be found, similarly due to the many moves of the family. So just the heritage George Williams, my maternal great grandfather, I’ve never been able to verify. There was a John Williams, drapers business in Union Street Plymouth in the 1841 census, but the family moved to London soon after. In addition, I’ve never been able to confirm the death of George Leate; he is not shown the list of casualties of the Battle of Alma, as alleged elsewhere again in this blog. So I’m left with the impression that Emily may have just run off with George Williams, married perhaps bigamously, and were forever on the move. I guess that I’ll never know for certain; one of the frustrations of genealogy.


Offline crimea1854

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 August 15 19:30 BST (UK) »
Continuous Service was only introduced into the Royal Navy in 1853, although it did not become compulsory until 1873. Prior to 1873 men were free to sign on only for the duration of a ship's commission, at the end of which they could sign on in another warship or join a merchant vessel. The Government decided to introduce 'Tickets' so that in the event of a national emergency they could call up trained men, hence why even men then serving in the Navy, or the Coastguard Service, were issued with tickets - this did not apply to men in the RMs.

On the question of George Leate, if he was serving in the Royal Marines he would not have been present at the Battle of Alma, no navy personnel qualified for this particular clasp. However, there was a Private George Leat who served with the 7th Royal Fusiliers, who, according to the medal roll, was wounded and subsequently died following the Battle of Alma.

Martin

Offline superspark

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 04 August 15 16:32 BST (UK) »
Martin, many thanks for that info on 'Tickets'. Also, the Marriage Certificate of George Leate to Emily Leat does show him to be a 'Private Soldier 7th Fusiliers'. However, again it is the name 'Leat' without the 'e'. It would seem likely that he was a casualty of the battle of Alma, but the Medal Roll does not give Next of Kin, which give more positive confirmation. But thanks again for your help and advice.

Vic P.

Offline trikidiki

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #6 on: Monday 17 August 15 01:40 BST (UK) »
superspark: "The 1851 census shows Emily Leat to be supposed a 19 year old servant to a Plymouth family whereas the 1841 census shows her to be age 5 living in East Stonehouse with her twin sister Caroline mentioned earlier in this blog."

The anomaly of the ages may be due to over-zealous 'rounding down' of ages to the nearest 5 years in the 1841 census. It was only supposed to apply to those aged over 15 but I have encountered similar mistakes on the part of the enumerator before. Note that the older sister happens to be 10 in 1841, this could mean that Emily and Caroline were not twins but both aged between 5 and 10 at the time of the census and both their ages rounded down to 5. It might be worth looking at adjacent addresses in the census and see if there is a pattern of children being aged 5 and 10. Also someone was not very accurate with Kate's age as can be seen from the census dates and her recorded age on those dates.

6 June 1841 -  5
30 Mar 1851 - ?
7 April 1861 - 25
2 April 1871 - 36
3 April 1881 - 44
5 April 1891 - 54
31 Mar 1901 - 65
2 April 1911 - 76

So if Emily was 19 in 1851 then she would have been 9 in 1841 and possibly rounded down to 5 (Emily's age would also then tie in better with her being 22 in 1853). Kate's age in the other censuses would suggest she was 5 or 6 in 1841 so also rounded down to 5. Therefore probably not twins.

Offline superspark

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #7 on: Monday 17 August 15 11:00 BST (UK) »
Many thanks trikidiki, I guess that I have been a bit fixated on the 1841 census ages and was not aware of the 'rounding down', as you describe. But when I think about it again, with this in mind, it puts Emily Leat's birth to be in 1832, which would make her to be 19 in the 1851 census as shown, and closer to the age of 22 as shown on her April 1853 marriage to George Leate, as well as being 24 at her August 1858 marriage to George Williams. Final confirmation is her November 1907 death certificate which shows her age to be 75. Many thanks for helping to clarify this.

Vic P.

Offline trikidiki

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Re: John LEAT, Drum Major, Royal Marines
« Reply #8 on: Friday 28 August 15 09:34 BST (UK) »
After John Leat's death. In the 1851 census, Mary Leat and her two daughters are listed as occupation "Hangling".
Does anyone have any idea what this is?