Betty Phyllis Nicholls Barry, South Glamorgan

[saundra]

Hi,

I am in desperate need of help, so I hope i'm doing this  right!

I'm new to this and boy have I hit a brick wall and am hoping someone can help me out.

The information I have is off her Death Certificate:  Betty Phyllis Nicholls  born Sept. 17, 1919 in Barry, South Glamorgan.

BUT my mum says that she seems to remember that her mum was actually born under the name of Lovett, Lovatt, Lovitt (not sure of the spelling) and that she was part african  but  unfortunately memories are not forth coming with accuracy. 

I have her marriage certificate showing her marrying a Josheph Henry Rollinson on the 15th of December 1943 and that shows her father as Richard Nicholls (deceased)

She has a brother named marcus and a sister named Jean (who was younger),  who are definately richard nicholls children,  but for some reason there is doubt of the father of Betty Phyllis.

I cannot find a birth record for betty,  jean or marcus so that I can get the mothers name and that is where I am stuck now.

If anyone could please help me with finding the birth mother of Betty Phyllis.

Thank you,
saundra

[trellisick]

hi saundra,
 i dont know if this will be of any help at all as i only possess the 1897 directory for barry, but in that year there were four nicholls families;-
            george labourer 21 fryatt street
           
            charles coaltrimmer 11 kingsland cres.

            william t.  signalman seaview road

             henry 29 kenilworth rd.

there are no lovett, lovatt, or lovitts in this year.

 i know it seems nothing at the moment but keep this info it will probably help at a later date.

all the best with your search kali.  p.s. only the head of household is shown in the directories.

[saundra]

Thank you Kali for your information,  I will keep it in mind for future reference.

Again,  thank you for taking the time to look for me!


Saundra

[Caswell]

Hi Saundra

A few things spring to mind that you may not have thought of.

Are you sure Betty was the actual Christian name?  Have you looked for the birth of an Elizabeth Phyllis Nicholls/Lovett for example?

Were both Marcus and Jean younger than Betty?  If so then it would seem likely that Betty was born before her mother married Richard Nicholls.  Have you tried finding a marriage for Richard Nicholls - maybe a year or two after Betty was born and seeing if it matches up with a Lovett marriage?

Another thing to consider is whether the date of birth on the death certificate was correct.  Although the actual birthday is usually correct, the year of birth can often be out by a year or two either way.  What was her age on her marriage certificarte?  Does that age tie up with her being born in 1919?

In my experience there is usually some truth in rumours that have come down the family.  Does your mother have any siblings that you could ask?  I've found that often siblings will relate slightly different versions of the same events and this can sometimes provide the vital clue needed.

Good Luck

Caro

[saundra]

Thanks for the advice,  unfortunately,  these are things that we have tried.

We used the LDS family history centre for the records,   do you think these where complete records?

Saundra

[Caswell]

Hi Saundra

Were you using the birth, marriage and death indexes?  If so then yes they should be complete, as opposed to the Free BMD records online which are not yet complete (but still very useful).  Of course there will always be some records that never made it into the main indexes but it would be unlikely that none of the births you are looking for did -  not by that time.

However if you were looking for baptism records then you would have been very lucky indeed to find any as there are very few in the LDS records for after 1900. 

Do you know the approximate birth years of either Jean or Marcus?  Were they quite a few years younger than Betty?

[saundra]

On Marcus we aren't sure at all,  but  Jean is suppose to be a few years younger,  so possible around the 1921/22 time.

We was looking thru birth records at the family history centre,  but we have also tried the freeBMD online.

Are there any other records besides her birth record that might have her mother's name on it?

Saundra

[Caswell]

You really need the birth of Betty or one of her siblings to get the maiden name.

But at least you have a lead in that it's thought that Betty may have been born Betty Lovett (or similar).  I presume you checked the birth indexes with all spelling variations of that name. 

It may be worth looking for a possible baptism for Betty, mother's maiden names are rarely mentioned with baptisms but if her mother was not married until after her birth you may be able to find her baptism - as Betty Lovett.

The good thing is once you do find Jean or Marcus in the birth indexes you will be able to see the mother's maiden name.  But as you can't find them under Nicholls are you totally sure that they were not born Lovett as well?  Could Betty's mother have been married before she married Richard Nicholls? 

Is Marcus still alive?  If not, do you know when he died.  Jean will probably have married and changed her name, but if you can find a death reference for Marcus Nicholls you should then be able to find his year of birth which will narrow down the years you need to search the indexes for.

There are various sites online where you can view the images of the BMD indexes (for a small fee). 

You know that Betty was born in Barry, but did she grow up in the area?  Were her siblings born in Barry?  Could it be that you missed the birth references because they were born elsewhere?

Are you certain of the spelling of Nicholls?  Have you also checked Nicholl, Nichols and maybe even Nickel?  Bear in mind that the most likely reason for not finding any of the births is because you are looking for the wrong name.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

The 1901 Census has a Lovett family living in Barry, and about 3 or 4 Nicholls families living in Barry.