Thomas MORRELL YOUNG VC

[ValCharlie]

I am trying to link my uncle edward Charlton VC with his cousin's father-in-law Tommy Young/Morrell/Murrell.
Do you know where Tommy was in 1901?

[neil1821]

I am trying to link my uncle edward Charlton VC with his cousin betty's father-in-law Tommy Young/Morrell/Murrell.
Do you know where Tommy was in 1901?

Hi, it's always better to start your own thread than take over an old one where the subject line doesn't relate to you.

I also think you may be on the wrong board, but either way we'll need more information from you before anyone can help. Edward Charlton VC seems to be very incidental to your query, which isn't really Armed Forces related that I can see.

Can I suggest you take a deep breath, organise your thoughts and explain it again from the top.
Set out the family relationship one step at a time. And tell us all you can about Tommy the father-in-law. So far we have a first name, 2 possible surnames and that's it. Not nearly enough to trace someone.

[ValCharlie]

Well thanks for that....
I am trying to link the families of two VC winners which seems as if it has to do with Armed Forces to me - the info that I require however, possibly is not, so if there is a better place to go then I am happy to be advised.

My uncle won the last VC of WW2 in Europe.  There is also Thomas Young VC (WW1/DLI) but none of us understand completely - and neither do the DLI or any-one else apparently - why Thomas Murrell enlisted as Thomas Young. Because he won his VC as Thomas Young he had to keep the name for the rest of his life. He married as Thomas Morrell Young in 1919. I am trying to trace him in 1911 and in 1901 and his parents Thomas Murrell and Mary Walker in 1891 (I think that they married in 1890 in the South Shields Reg District - this is an 'informed guess' as the name Walker was given to Thomas Young's son - John Walker Morrell. If they married in 1890 they should be together in 1891)
Son Thomas Murrell was born at 2 Hedworth Lane in Boldon Colliery in 1895. There is a video of a ceremony in High Spen held in recent years to commemorate his VC in which the speaker says that that TM was born in Bolden, moved to ? (inaudible) and came to High Spen as a young boy.
I am trying to put together the family history from the marriage (?) in 1890 until Thomas Murrell enlisted as Thomas Young. Does that clarify things??  I think that a story with a cousin and a father-in-law as VC winners is special.

Names of living persons removed by moderator as per Rootschat policy.

[neil1821]

Aah Ok, it becomes slightly clearer now.
First time round you didn't explain that Tommy Young/Morrell/Murrell was also a VC winner and hence in the army. He just seemed like a random name. 

Right so this is him
http://www.lightinfantry.me.uk/vctyoung.htm
So in 1901 he'd have been 6 years old. Just a case of checking the census I guess.

[ValCharlie]

Not that simple I am afraid.....
Georgraphically I have Boldon Colliery in 1895 and High Spen in later life.
Namewise I have Murrell at birth 1895, Young in 1918 when he won his VC.

We think that his birth father may have died when Thomas was young and his mother remarried to a Young who effectively became his father and whose name Thomas took when he signed up...but what name and where in 1901 and 1911 we do not know.

We have searched and cannot find anything, but my knowledge of the NE is sketchy........

[corisande]

Re George Sim

There is often some truth in these family stories, but some of the detail gets lost along the way

I would suggest that you research "the first German ship lost in WW1". It may have been during Battle of Heligoland Bight, but I am no expert. And see who was the captain of the ship that sunk it

Also he may have been "recommended for a VC" but received a lesser decoration. try looking for has name that way in London Gazette

You should be able to find his service record in Kew. If he was a captain i 1914, he must have joined up many years earlier

[casalguidi]

Surtes YOUNG m Mary MURRELL/Mary WALKER 29 Jun 1899 Durham http://www.southtyneside.info/applications/2/registersearch/indexsearch.aspx

1901 Cliff Terrace, Ryhope

Surtees YOUNG head mar 25 mason b.Whitburn
Mary wife 25 b.Boldon
Thomas son 6 b.Boldon
Surtees son 1 b.Ryhope

RG13/4717 folio 52 page 34
...................

Surtees YOUNG junior gives his father as Surtees YOUNG of 25 Towneley Terrace, High Spen when he enlists into the TA WW1.  He is later discharged due to being under age.

What was the occupation of Thomas MURRELL on his sons's 1895 birth certificate?  Or, similarly, on his son's 1919 marriage certificate?  I assume that the birth certificate gives mother as Mary WALKER?

If you search the 1911 census (use the advanced search) there is a Thomas YOUNG age 16 born Boldon.  If you search for YOUNG living with a Surtes YOUNG there is the same Thomas YOUNG born Boldon http://www.1911census.co.uk/

Casalguidi

[ValCharlie]

Hi Casalguidi

A really big thanks for that - I had got as far as this
"Thomas Murrell and Mary Walker married in late 1890 somewhere in the South Shields Civil Registration District (Oct-Dec vol 10a  p1159).
On the night of 5th April 1891 they were living at 84 Marsden Street, Westoe, South Shields with their new born son, Thomas Murrell, born March 1891.
Thomas senior was a 31 year old coach trimmer from Sunderland. Also in the house was Thomas’s mother Jane Murrell, born Jane Parker in 1827 in Deptford, Sunderland.
The baby Thomas died in infancy, followed by another Thomas(?) in 1893. The third (?) Thomas, was born in Boldon Colliery on January 28th 1895.
Jane Murrell died in 1895, I think at the home of her second son William.
The following year, between July and September 1896, father Thomas Murrell died young, aged 39. Mary Walker (Murrell) was 12 years younger than her husband and was a widow at 27.
Just under 3 years later – April-June 1899 – the widowed Mary Murrell married mason Surtees Young in South Shields. Thomas VC was, therefore, less than 4 when his mother’s new man came into his life.
In early 1901 at the time of the census Mary and Surtees were living in Ryhope. They had a new baby, also called Surtees Young, born in 1900. By this time Mary was in her early thirties but on the census she lies about her age claiming to be 25, the same age as her husband. Ten years previously in 1891 she was recorded as being 22. If she were, when she married in 1890, she would have been only 14. Significantly, Thomas, at 6, is recorded as being Thomas Young.
Ten years later, in 1911, Surtees and Mary had 9 children in total, including Thomas who was still recorded as a Young. He was 16 and working as a miner, a driver below ground.
The family must have moved to High Spen shortly after this date as Thomas Young, the name he had used for most of his life, appears to have joined up from High Spen. In August 1914, 19 year old Tommy enlisted in the 9th Battalion of the DLI. "

The use of the name Young appears to have continued and been problematic - Thomas married as Thomas M Young - haven't seen the certificate - and his wife Rachel (Welsh)'s death is recorded as Rachel M Young - so I suspect that he called himself Murrell Young, probably worried about using a non-registered name but being 'famous' locally as Thomas Young.
His children that survive are known as Morrell, as are his grandchildren.His son married the cousin of my uncle who was also awarded the VC.

[casalguidi]

Looks like that's all sorted nicely now then

Casalguidi