Author Topic: John BECKMAN Death  (Read 2706 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 08:46 BST (UK) »

('Gertrude' divorced John Beckman in 1922 and seems to have been with AEC at the time and had children with him, she is noted to have died in 1969 but AEC married again in 1942, I can't find any marriage or divorce records of AEC to Gertrude?)
AEC is listed to have been born in Derby, Tasmania circa 1900, and to have died in 1979, Erskineville

 
 

I think there was not a marriage between Gertrude Maria and Albert Edward COTTON.

Her death notice is digitised through google archives and she died in her correct name Maria Gertrude BECKMAN.
The notice lists her named children and their spouses. I can send it to you if needed.

The children use the name COTTON on the electoral Roll with the exception of the eldest John  Murray (Jack) born 1914 at st Leonards (#50317) who uses the BECKMAN name.

On the NSW Electoral Roll, Gertrude uses the name Marea (sic) COTTON
The Death Notice spells it Maria.

At the time of Albert Edward COTTON's  enlistment for ww2. he stated his Next of Kin was Gertrude COTTON. He calls her his wife and states there are 3 children.  He gives her address and his as the same

By his discharge he lives at 135 Arthur Street North Sydney
There is a note of his marriage to Delphine.

https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection

 Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Dundee

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 15:26 BST (UK) »
Henry and Marie divorced in 1890.  Unfortunately the divorce papers are not digitised on PROV and Ancestry is missing the most relevant page in the middle of the document.  Henry names his seven surviving children out of 9  (it was actually 8 out of 10, he forgot one of the daughters) and the youngest was son Carl born in 1883.  The co-respondent was Robert FORCUS and from the rest of the document it looks like Marie started playing away from home around 1884.

She had two further sons,  Albert Peterson BECKMANN in 1887, father not named, and Leslie Petersen Forcus BECKMAN in 1889, father named as Henry but this seems highly unlikely.  Strangely there is another child registered in 1887....

20578 / 1887
FORCUS, Alfred Nottingham
Born Hotham

Mother: Mary BECKMAN
Father: Robert

FORCUS was later spelled FAWCUS.  I can see a family tree for this child and they have a date of birth as 22 May 1887 from his WW2 enlistment.  He died in 1964 at Ballaarat so do you think he is the same person as John BECKMAN?

Oh OK, in 1941 Alfred says he married his wife 'Anna' on 28 Jan 1914 and that is the same date that John BECKMAN married Maria Gertrude REIDY later COTTON.  Alfred says he had previously served in Rabaul in the Australian Naval and Military Expeditionary Force (AN&MEF) and that was where John BECKMAN served in WW1.

Talk about a tangled web.  ;D

Do you have any birth certs?  I'm still wondering how Marie could have two children registered in 1887 if one was born in May.

Debra  :)

Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Dundee!

Yes, it's a very tangled web. I can clear up some of this as I've been digging very deep since discovering John Beckman's existence a few days ago! It's been a very busy few days!

I'll post with a bit more detail shortly but to clear up the below discrepancies:

Henry and Marie divorced in 1890 and yes, Robert Forcus was the father of Marie’s two youngest sons, and the reason for the divorce! Marie and Henry’s children were Henrietta, Heinrich (died in childhood), Helena, Marie, Elsie, Anton (died in childhood), Annie, Henry and Carl. Eda, born between Annie and Henry, was understood by the Beckman’s to have not been Henry’s biological child and seems not to have been fully accepted as a Beckman by the family.

Marie left Beckman and had a child with Robert in 1887, whom she initially registered as Alfred Nottingham Forcus, with Robert as father, and a few months later, perhaps after a falling out with Robert, attempted to give Alfred legitimacy by registering the infant again, this time with the name Albert Petersen Beckman, listing her husband as the father, and Albert is the only name (most of) his family knew him by. Marie’s return to Ballarat with Alfred/Albert in tow was not welcomed however, and she returned to Robert, having another son with him in 1889 (Leslie Petersen Forcus Beckman).

And yes, Robert Beckman, Alfred Forcus/Fawcus and Albert Petersen are all the same person! Anna was my grandmother but they were not married in 1941, she was his common-law wife at that stage (they married in 1948) so the marriage date on Alfred’s enlistment papers was referring to his marriage to Gertrude.

They are definitely the same man. Same height, eye colour, vaccination scar, same parents, same marriage dates. And as OP mentioned, ‘her’ John Beckman went by many aliases! John Beckman’s military correspondence even show him using the name Albert, *and* A.N.Fawcus when you look closely, it almost feels like he was asking for someone to find him out!

So it seems we have discovered many of the same things in the last 24 hours! I hope this clears up some of the confusion, I’m piecing it all together rapidly but I’m confident the above is correct.

Was just about to post when I saw your response so clearing your questions up first, but will post more info below.
Henry and Marie divorced in 1890.  Unfortunately the divorce papers are not digitised on PROV and Ancestry is missing the most relevant page in the middle of the document.  Henry names his seven surviving children out of 9  (it was actually 8 out of 10, he forgot one of the daughters) and the youngest was son Carl born in 1883.  The co-respondent was Robert FORCUS and from the rest of the document it looks like Marie started playing away from home around 1884.

She had two further sons,  Albert Peterson BECKMANN in 1887, father not named, and Leslie Petersen Forcus BECKMAN in 1889, father named as Henry but this seems highly unlikely.  Strangely there is another child registered in 1887....

20578 / 1887
FORCUS, Alfred Nottingham
Born Hotham

Mother: Mary BECKMAN
Father: Robert

FORCUS was later spelled FAWCUS.  I can see a family tree for this child and they have a date of birth as 22 May 1887 from his WW2 enlistment.  He died in 1964 at Ballaarat so do you think he is the same person as John BECKMAN?

Oh OK, in 1941 Alfred says he married his wife 'Anna' on 28 Jan 1914 and that is the same date that John BECKMAN married Maria Gertrude REIDY later COTTON.  Alfred says he had previously served in Rabaul in the Australian Naval and Military Expeditionary Force (AN&MEF) and that was where John BECKMAN served in WW1.

Talk about a tangled web.  ;D

Do you have any birth certs?  I'm still wondering how Marie could have two children registered in 1887 if one was born in May.

Debra  :)


Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:12 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sue!
Yes I would love to see her death notice. On the electoral roll do *all* her children go by Cotton other than Jack? Even her second son Albert Peterson Murray-Beckman? I know he enlisted under the Murray-Beckman name, as did David.
 
[/quote]

I think there was not a marriage between Gertrude Maria and Albert Edward COTTON.

Her death notice is digitised through google archives and she died in her correct name Maria Gertrude BECKMAN.
The notice lists her named children and their spouses. I can send it to you if needed.

The children use the name COTTON on the electoral Roll with the exception of the eldest John  Murray (Jack) born 1914 at st Leonards (#50317) who uses the BECKMAN name.

On the NSW Electoral Roll, Gertrude uses the name Marea (sic) COTTON
The Death Notice spells it Maria.

At the time of Albert Edward COTTON's  enlistment for ww2. he stated his Next of Kin was Gertrude COTTON. He calls her his wife and states there are 3 children.  He gives her address and his as the same

By his discharge he lives at 135 Arthur Street North Sydney
There is a note of his marriage to Delphine.

https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection

 Sue
[/quote]

Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:19 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much everyone!

Since discovering this thread, in the last couple of days I've been unravelling a lot we didn't know about my grandfather!
I've been digging more in the last 24 hours so here is more information which might help.

Re: Gertrude and John's marriage and divorce - I haven't viewed these certificates so can't see what parentage was listed, but have confirmed they exist. Given Beckman's predilection for aliases, his own account of his parentage may or may not be accurate!

Gertrude Reidy/John Beckman Marriage: 1534/1914 NSW

Gertrude Reidy/John Beckman Divorce: 0360/1922 NSW

Gertrude/Reidy Children:
John Murray Beckman, b1914 St Leonards NSW  (Apparently had a child who was a roots user here, Bev Eliott? According to Bev, her father was known as 'Jack'. Bev would be my mother's niece, making her my first cousin - Bev if you are still around I'd love to hear from you!)
Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, b1917 St Leonard's NSW (m.Marion?)(d. WA according to niece Bev Eliott)

(Possibly?) David Murray Beckman b1922, nicknamed 'Beckman, d2007'


I've found a family tree that lists David Murray Beckman as the first son of Maria Gertrude Reidy Beckman Cotton, and Albert 'Alf' Edward Cotton, and I believe they had two more children together. Possibly a Judy Wymer née Cotton/Beckman, (m. Neil Robert Wymer?) and possibly a Noel Cotton / Noel Beckman. I believe Neil and Judy(?) may have had two children, one of them may be the OP of this thread (Barnee/Raelen?).

It's very complicated! The more I look into it the more complicated it gets. Here are some of the key mysteries / information, OR you can scroll down to get quickly to the list of known aliases:

David Murray Beckman seems to have been raised by Albert Edward Cotton, Gertrude's second husband. I have seen mention of him being known by the nickname 'Beckman' which seems odd if John divorced his mother over his conception with Cotton. Another confusing thing is the same family tree mentions Albert Edward Cotton was also known as 'Alf' - a bizarre coincidence if true! I've confirmed that the Cotton who became Gertrude's common-law husband was definitely *not* the same man as John Beckman and Alfred Fawcus, despite the names 'Alf' and 'Albert' - his military record clearly shows it couldn't have been him.

OP mentioned that John Beckman had many aliases/names, including Albert, John and Charles. I haven't yet found a record of him clearly using the name Charles, but there are certainly many potential leads to follow. His half-brother Carl Beckman died in 1906 aged 22, so it's possible that he picked the name Charles up from there? Carl was born in 1884, so if this is the case he could have quite easily passed himself off as three years older than his actual age, if using the name outside of Victoria I imagine it would have been quite easy to do but I haven't begun to look into the Charles alias yet! So that is a theory. Below is what I know at this stage about the names my grandfather went by:

Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:20 BST (UK) »
1887: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FORCUS:
Initially registered by birth parents Maria Christina Petersen and Robert Flinn Forcus, as Alfred Nottingham Forcus. (VIC 1887/10058)Maria was married to Heinrich Detlef Beckmann at the time, but had two sons with Robert Forcus/Fawcus: Alfred/Albert in 1887, and Leslie Petersen Forcus Beckman in 1889.

1887 ALBERT PETERSEN BECKMANN:
Marie appears to have quickly had second thoughts about leaving Heinrich for Robert and a few months later registered Alfred's birth a second time, as Albert Peterson Beckmann, (VIC 1887/29668) naming his parents as Marie and Henry Beckman. He was then known to his family as Albert, most of whom appear to have not known him under other names, with the exception of his elder half-sister Eda, who was in touch with him later in life when he was using his original name Alfred Nottingham Fawcus (the spelling Forcus/Fawcus appears to have been used at various times by Alfred, his father Robert, who was born in Collingwood in 1859/1860, and by his grandfather who was also named Robert Flinn/Flynn Forcus/Fawcus). Alfred/Albert/John's father and Marie appear to have split not long after, or perhaps before, Leslie's birth, and Marie returned to the Ballarat area, where she lived til her death in 1934. Her death certificate lists the name Albert Petersen as being her second youngest son, the name most of his family seem to have known him exclusively by. So this seems to be his 'Official' name, though his original name was in fact Alfred Nottingham Forcus I haven't yet found a record of him using it before 1939.
Albert Petersen seems to have been the name he used for most of his earliest life, in Victoria. His birth was registered as being in Lilydale, while 'Alfred' was registered in Hotham. Both 'John' and 'Alfred' named Healesville as their POB later in life. John Beckman passed the name Petersen on to at least one of his children, Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, b.1917. He is listed as Albert Petersen on his mother's death certificate in 1934.

1914 JOHN BECKMAN
In NSW record of marriage to Maria Gertrude Reidy, St Leonard's NSW. Date of marriage was 28th January 1914, 1534/1914


1918 JOHN BECKMAN
Record of Military enlistment, Gertrude Beckman listed as wife
His military record shows he initially enlisted for WWI on 27th April 1918, and he gives his DOB varyingly as 23rd or 24th April 1887, POB Healesville. Other details from his military records from this time:
Age: 31
Height: 5 ' 7 1/4"
Vaccination: Left Arm
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Brown 
Occupation: Agent / Accountant
Address: Both 174 Walker St AND 14 Spring Street, North Sydney, NSW are listed.
Embarkation Record: SS Melusia, from Sydney to Rabaul

1922 JOHN BECKMAN
In record of petition to divorce Maria Gertrude Reidy, NSW


1939 ALBERT JOHN MURRAY BECKMAN / A.N.FAWCUS
In a stat dec and letters to the Base Records Officer, requesting a copy of his military records. The 'Murray' appears to have come from Gertrude's mother. In this stat dec he lists his N.O.K. as being Maria Christina Beckman (his mother) but then has crossed out 'Christina' and above writes 'Gertrude'. The N.O.K. was next to the D.O.B. so I suspect he initially thought it was asking for parental information and then made a correction when he realised his mistake. He requested the records to be sent to the address of A.N. Fawcus, so I suspect he must have been using this name in 1939 also.

Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:20 BST (UK) »


1941 ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In military enlistment for WWII, Service #N273156
DOB as May 1887, POB Healesville.
Lists date of marriage as 28th January 1914
Anna Fawcus is named as his wife - this is my grandmother Ray/Rae Elizabeth 'Anna' Fawcus née Gearey. However Anna was born in 1913, and did not officially marry my grandfather until 1948. The above marriage date matches *exactly* with the marriage record of John Beckman and Gertrude Reidy, however.
Other details:
D.O.B.: 22 May 1887 (differing date to John Beckman, who gave at least 2 DOB, but same year.)
P.O.B. Healesville
Age: 53 1/2
Hair: Medium
Eyes: Blue
Vaccination: Left Arm
Occupation: Consulting Incorporated Accountant / Public Accountant
Address: Jae Flats, Roslyn Avenue, Elizabeth Bay NSW (1941)
Later address listed as 40 Bayswater Road, Darlinghurst NSW (1948)
Previous Military Experience: Rabaul  A.N/ & M.E.F. (Rabaul was British military territory in now Papua New Guinea, during WWI, and the location where John Beckman served in WWI as per his military records.)
Education: Grenville? College Ballarat, Fellow of Corporation of Consulting Accountants
 
Clearly A.N.Fawcus is John Beckman AKA Albert John Murray Beckman, based on their military papers alone, let alone all the other evidence!
 
1943 ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In a newspaper birth announcement of my mother's birth, where my grandmother is listed as mother. I have this somewhere but need to locate it. I found this many years ago.

1948: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In Victorian marriage record to my grandmother Rae Elizabeth Gearey (Who went by the nickname 'Anna' as she disliked the name Rae) 1128/1948

1964: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
Ballarat death record 10058. Circa 1887-1964, parents listed as being Robert Flinn Forcus and Marie Christina Petersen. By this time Alfred had returned to the Ballarat area. Most of his family would have passed away by this time. Until her death in 1951 his half sister Eda Beckman was in touch with him and knew him by the name Alfred Fawcus, and my mother remembers her from her childhood as her Aunt Eda Beckman.

Offline EPB

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 16:22 BST (UK) »
To answer the above question, John's parentage information originally came to me from the OP, so I'm not sure where they found that information. Hopefully one day they find this post again!

Robert Flinn / Flynn Forcus / Fawcus married Sarah Nelson in 1896, not long after his split with Marie Petersen, and Robert and Sarah remained married til death circa 1945. Their only offspring, Hugh Robert Nelson Forcus, also died around this time, in WWII service. Robert and his son Hugh (my mother's half-uncle) worked in horse-breeding/selling and records of them can be found around Australia, especially between VIC and WA.

Robert's origins are another mystery to uncover, I have his birth details but his father seems to have some conflicting marriage records in various family trees, so I haven't yet established which is correct - but there is enough to uncover about Alfred/John/Albert/Charles? for now!

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Re: John BECKMAN Death
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 17:00 BST (UK) »
Current questions burning my curiosity:

What happened to my GF between 1922 (when he divorced Maria Gertrude Reidy as 'John Murray Beckman' and 1939 (when he wrote to Canberra as 'Albert John Murray Beckman' and was likely also already using the name 'Alfred Nottingham Fawcus')? What name/s was he using between 1922-1939?

When did he start using aliases and why? (If you don't count 'Albert Petersen' as his original alias, 'Alfred Nottingham Fawcus' being his original birthname, it's likely his mother didn't confide this to him until later?)

Are there any other marriages and/or offspring to uncover?

Was David Murray Beckman the son of John Beckman, or Albert Cotton?

Why did Albert Cotton go by the nickname 'Alf'? Or is the family tree that lists that incorrect?

When/where did my GF use the alias Charles (as mentioned by OP)?

Are there any other living descendants of my GF? (Via sons John Murray Beckman, Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, or any other as yet unknown / unconfirmed children?)