Author Topic: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich  (Read 13133 times)

Offline Sally_29

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 12:13 BST (UK) »
I too am descended from Edmund & Ethelinda married in Lakenham, via their son John. I believe John might be the "Jaen" in the 1841 census. Its my father who did the DNA test as we had come to a complete standstill - well documented back to John Bowles (although I haven't yet found any record of his birth) but then Edmund is a real mystery. Are there any male Bowles descendants of Thomas who could do the test too?

I've found the information about Thomas fascinating. Where should I look to see the transportation details?  I've also been trying to trace Ethelinda too as the Rainford Cookson should make her easy to trace but I've found nothing, but then she was born in "America" c 1800 so there isn't much help there.

Edmund Bowles seems to be a rare combination of names - there is the convict who was transported, who was born in Great Yarmouth, but no way of telling for certain if this is the same Edmund who married Ethelinda in 1827. The ages are all a bit fuzzy.

I hope this isn't repeating too much but thought it would be helpful to summarise all the information I have about this family in date order!

Will have to do in bits as there is a character limit.

Birth of Edmund Bowles in Great Yarmouth
Born March 30th, baptised April 7th 1809 in Great Yarmouth son of Thomas and Mary, nee Fleming. (I would like to work out if they had other male children, and any Bowles descendants, but it takes an age working through the images of the parish registers)

Marriage of Edmund & Ethelinda
 5th June 1827 in Lakenham, Norwich - all the banns were read in the church and they were both given as single and residents of the parish. They were both literate, signing their names in the parish register.

Parish of St Michael at Thorn, Norwich
The Parish records were all destroyed during the second world war, however one dedicated group has reconstructed some of the baptismal records from the bishops transcripts: There is the following record:

Entry 977 18/5/1828 Edmund Bowles son of Edmund Bowles Weaver and Sarah Rainford, born 12/5/1828.
This looks like an elder brother who died, with John being born between Judith and Martha - age given in 1841 was only 8 I think (my subscription to the censuses has expired, so will have to go to the library to check).  

Parish of St Gregory, Norwich baptisms 1813- 1890
Baptised Sep 16th, born Sep 9th 1830, Judith, daughter of Edmund Bowles  and Ethelinda Sarah (Rainford), late Cookson.
This gives Edmund's profession as weaver. The date ties in perfectly with the Judith's age of 10 in the 1841 census as this was in June 1841. On the census / marriage records she was sometimes Judith Sarah and other times Sarah Judith. She later married Christopher Ignatius Nelson (her mother Ethelinda Sarah Bowles was living with them in 1851) and moved to Australia before 1861, and  died aged 40 in 1870 in Australia.

Parish of St Mary Coslany, Norwich Baptisms
May 25th 1834 (Born 14th) Sarah Martha, daughter of Edmund and Sarah Ethelinda Bowles of this parish. Here Edmund's profession is given as "traveller". This child isn't shown in the 1841 census - could have died, but I couldn't find a burial record in that parish.

Both daughters have been given their mother's name Sarah as one of their names.

1841 Census
Sarah Bowles , married, (40) is living with Thomas (15) Judith(10) and Jaen (6) and is shown as being a confectioner of foreign birth. I haven't been able to find Edmund anywhere. The only other trace of Thomas I found was the 1851 visitor mentioned earlier, a marriage in Norwich in 1845 and a death in 1846 (although I haven't purchased the certificates so don't know if these are relevant)

1844 Edmund is transported to Tasmania.
He is described as being born in Great Yarmouth, has a wife called Sarah and 2 children (do not know if that means 2 non-adult children - presumably Judith and Jaen/John). he can also read and write.

tbc




Norfolk : Bowles, Brock, Goulder, Hindle, Mace, Minns, Morton, Newman, Pigg, Reeve, Wayling
Suffolk : Canham 
Cornwall/Devon : Box, Bray, Brock, Nankwell, Townsend, Veale

Offline Sally_29

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 12:15 BST (UK) »
continuing:


1849 Marriage of Judith

Judith Sarah Bowles marries Christopher Ignatius Nelson in Norwich. Her father is given as Edmund, a weaver and one of the witnesses is Ethelinda Sarah Bowles.

1851 census
Christopher Nelson, a musician born in Westminster aged 24 and his wife Sarah aged 20 are living in the household of Sarah Bowles a married woman aged 51 (whose place of birth is not known) in Norwich.

I have not been able to find John Bowles in this census.

2nd July 1855
John Bowles, son of Edmund a Weaver, marries Hannah Elizabeth Mace, both of St Paul's, Norwich. John is a sailor "of full age" - possibly the reason he was not in the 1851 census if at sea.

They have various children from Edmund, born 1856, to Samuel, born 1871, including also Ethelinda, Martha, Christopher and George.

1858 Tasmania : marriage of Edmund Bowles to Ann Robertson a widow aged 40. It seems unlikely that they had any children

1861 Census 7th April
Ethelinda Sarah Bowles, a widow, aged is living in the household of her son John in Norwich. Her birthplace is now given as America. Edmund is not in fact dead (see next entry) - although he soon will be.

1861  12th April Death of Edmund Bowles
Death Place: Bothwell Dist., Tasmania, Australia  Age:50    Occupation: Confectioner  Married  to Ann Bowles

It is interesting, but not at all conclusive, that Edmund is described as a confectioner, as this was the profession (Ethelinda) Sarah gave in the 1841 census

I know this doesn't relate directly to Thomas but hope it is of interest anyway. Maybe between us all we can sort this family out. Of course if we do there is then the challenge of tracing further back...!

Best wishes

Sally
Norfolk : Bowles, Brock, Goulder, Hindle, Mace, Minns, Morton, Newman, Pigg, Reeve, Wayling
Suffolk : Canham 
Cornwall/Devon : Box, Bray, Brock, Nankwell, Townsend, Veale

Offline trish1120

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 14:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Sally,
An answer to at least one of your questions;

BOWLES Baptisms St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Parents THOMAS/MARY
nee Fleming;
SARAH, 02 March 1805
SAMUEL, 16 June 1806
EDMUND, 07 April 1809

Just under, St Nicholas, Yarmouth (no Great);
JONATHAN, 09 March 1803

Source www.freereg.org.uk

Trish :)

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Sally_29

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 14:27 BST (UK) »
Trish

So much so quickly!   :)
Many thanks -  I hadn't used Free Reg and was slogging through the images of the parish registers on the IGI site!

Sally
Norfolk : Bowles, Brock, Goulder, Hindle, Mace, Minns, Morton, Newman, Pigg, Reeve, Wayling
Suffolk : Canham 
Cornwall/Devon : Box, Bray, Brock, Nankwell, Townsend, Veale


Offline trish1120

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 14:33 BST (UK) »
Do you have when Thomas and Mary Flemming Married??
It may be much earlier than 1800's.

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Rochdalian

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 14:47 BST (UK) »
Hi All

As the bloke who started all thisa I should say I'm not related to any Bowles - sorry Sally.  It is my partner who's sister-in-law is a descendent of Judith & Christopher Nelson. 

Transportation records are at the following, for Edmund:

http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=6248

To save you 'browsing' his Indent is image 92-93, his description is image 134 and his conduct record image 35.

For Thomas it is  http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=6264
Sorry I  didn't take note of the image numbers for him :-[

As I may have alluded to in my initial post Thomas left Launcestion bound for Calcutta in 1850 and a fellow calling himself Thomas Rainford Day Bowles turns up in Geelong in 1853 and marrys Winifred Carthy.  We have no idea where the name 'Day' comes from, anybody any ideas?  Interestingly when Judith died she is referred to as Day Judith Nelson, I think I have it the right way round but anyway the Day is in there??

More tomorrow I'm off to my bed as it's nearly midnight here in OZ.

Bob
Pearson - Yorkshire
Flinders - Notts/Lincs/Lyon
Dearden - Rochdale
Grindrod - Rochdale
Reynolds - Staffs/Cornwall
Tortoishell - Staffs
Cooper, Freeman, Parnell, Love, Hargreaves - Rutland
Maslen - Wiltshire/Victoria, Australia
Kenny - Germany
Edwards - Greater London/Victoria, Australia
Bartlett, Gee, Padbury - Northants
Rampoley, Allom - Suffolk
Detlefsen, Herse, Iversen, Boisen/Boysen - Denmark
Xylander - Germany
Dundon - Co Limerick
Mullins - Devon

Offline trish1120

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 14:57 BST (UK) »
From this Site I found these Burials;
http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/index.php
SARAH Bowles, 1793, Infant, Daug of Thomas and Mary nee Fleming
SAMUEL Bowles, 1797, infant, Son of Thomas and Mary late Fleming

Hi Bob,
Goodnight, I'm in Sydney :)

 
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 15:16 BST (UK) »
Everything points to this Marriage;
Thomas BOWLES, Bachelor
Mary HEMMAN, Spinster
Both of Great Yarmouth
28 August 1784, St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
Witnesses, William HEMMAN, Mary GOODINGS
Source FreeREG
IGI has a Submitted Entry as Mary FLEMMAN

Someone on Anc. has these Children for Thomas/Mary;
MARY 1787
EDWARD 1789-1849
THOMAS 1791
SARAH 1792-1793
SAMUEL 1794-1797
WILLIAM 1799
JONATHAN 1803-1840
SARAH 1805
SAMUEL 1806
EDMUND 1809


Sorry to take over your posting Bob.

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Sally_29

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Re: Thomas Bowles-b c1826 Norwich
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 15:35 BST (UK) »
I have found:  Thomas Bowles m Maria Flemman  28 Aug 1784 St Nicholas Gt Yarmouth

but I am finding it hard to work out who married whom in these old parish registers - especially when there are several Thomas Bowles' around - I have found several  born in great Yarmouth that could be the one who married here :
Thomas son of Edward & Elizabeth bapt 28 Nov 1760 who would have been 24 ish
Thomas, son of John and Lydia Bowles, baptised 17 Aug 1763 who would have been 21+
Thomas, son of Thomas and Mary baptised in 1767 who was 17+  (never sure with these baptism dates how old they actually are!)

I have been working forward through the registers from 1784 and found the following children for Thomas &  Mary Bowles so far:
Elizabeth  born 26th, bapt 28th Sept 1785
Mary, born 21st, bapt 23rd Feb 1787
Edward  born Feb 24th bapt Jun 27th 1789
Thomas born March 13th and bapt mar 28th 1791
Sarah born March 3rd bapt July 7th 1793

Also found Mary Flemming D of William and Sarah bapt 3rd Feb 1764 - which would mean she was 20 when she married and 45 when Edmund was born.

Actually just looking at these together I would guess that the Thomas is the on of Edward and Elizabeth and they named their first born son and daughter for the paternal grandparents, second born for themselves and 3rd born for maternal grandparents (which would seenm to predict the next son a William between 1793 and 1799's jonathan!

Thanks for your help - its helped spark me back into action again

Sally



Norfolk : Bowles, Brock, Goulder, Hindle, Mace, Minns, Morton, Newman, Pigg, Reeve, Wayling
Suffolk : Canham 
Cornwall/Devon : Box, Bray, Brock, Nankwell, Townsend, Veale