Author Topic: POW info----- can't make it out!  (Read 3784 times)

Offline anabanana

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POW info----- can't make it out!
« on: Monday 18 April 11 22:13 BST (UK) »
Hello can someone help me read lines 8 + 9? (its an extract from the service record of my grandfathers first cousin's military record, taken off ancestry.

5. M____/Letter P of W Limburg
6. P M 177 12-8-17 a P ____ Limberg
7. RSA?? 18 1/18? Schneidemuhl
        report received from CSM T Duggan Coldstream Guards ____ 30428 R Chisholm died 8-2-18
________________________ (cant make out this line at all!)

His death certificate says he committed suicide at the Royal Forest in Klaushagen....but cannot find evidence of a pow camp there...

any help greatfully received!

Kind regards,

A
Sutherland, Inverness-shire, Aberdeenshire, Ross-shire, Banffshire

MacRae, MacLeod, MacPherson, MacQueen, Nicolson, Lobban, Riddoxh, Mann, Bertram

Offline anitah1972

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 00:46 BST (UK) »
Well, I have almost no skill with deciphering, but I thought I'd take a shot at enhancing it as best I could... maybe someone else will be able to get words out of this?

Best of luck!
LEWNES/LIOUNIS from Greece, settled in Brooklyn, Kings, NYC, USA
ZBORAZ/SBORAI/SPORAY from Austria/Hungary/Czechoslovakia, settled in Pennsylvania, USA
GRAY from Galasheils/Hawick, Scotland
BAIN, SETH, GARDNER, DOUGLAS from Falkirk/Bo'ness/Linlithgow/Dumbarton, Scotland
MCGREGOR/MCGRIGOR/JARVIS from Scotland

Offline Billyblue

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 01:41 BST (UK) »
The first word looks like Man's but it could also be Maus

You'd need a lot of luck to read the enhanced line, even, under the 'report received' etc.
thanks to Anitah for helping!

The last line reads To W/O (War Office / Warrant Officer?) B104.93    To P/M O (Prisoner / Military Office/r ?) 1634 over 18.5  4 July 1918

He may have excaped from a POW camp and found he was worse off - approaching enemy, about to be shot, etc - and decided it was better to go his own way than face possible torture.  We must remember not to judge by our peace-time standards.

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)


Offline PrueM

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 02:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Anabanana :)

A couple of clips for you - an enlarged version of your clip, enhanced a bit so you can hopefully see all the text, and another bit off the previous page of his record, which describes the suicide, just in case you hadn't seen it (apologies if anyone finds it distressing  :-\ ). 

Cheers
Prue

Offline PrueM

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 02:52 BST (UK) »
Third clip to show the almost-not-there last line - which I'm pretty certain reiterates what is in the second clip I posted (I can read "by cutting his throat at Klaushagen" and the date).

Offline anabanana

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 19:50 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much  Prue, Dawn & Anitah :-)  I wouldnt have known where to start with darkening the faded text etc.  I had been hoping that the faded line would say something about where his camp was - Schneidemuhl (noted in the lines above) seeems to be quite far away from Klaushagen in Pommerania (although it seems the area has a Polish name now) ..... as for "the royal forest" I cannot find that place either....back to drawing board.

Thanks again, much obliged  :D
Sutherland, Inverness-shire, Aberdeenshire, Ross-shire, Banffshire

MacRae, MacLeod, MacPherson, MacQueen, Nicolson, Lobban, Riddoxh, Mann, Bertram

Offline PEEJDEE

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 22 November 11 01:45 GMT (UK) »
can i ask what was the soldiers name to who the service papers refer to.

Phil duggan

Offline Geoff-E

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 22 November 11 08:06 GMT (UK) »
On line 7, I think it's 18 1/12 ... first month of 1918.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.

Offline apwright

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Re: POW info----- can't make it out!
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 November 11 10:10 GMT (UK) »
Schneidemühl was the main camp in the region, but up to 40% of the prisoners registered there actually lived at satellite camps (Aussenlager) or on work details (Arbeitskommandos, AK) up to 70 miles away. Langensalza (now Inowrocław) AK was 67 miles away, so Klaushagen Kreis Neustettin (now Kluczewo, coordinates 53.6497 16.1875, 40 miles from Schneidemühl/Piła) is not really too far.

The closest satellite camp I can find mention of is Groß Born (now Borne Sulinowo), 15 miles from Klaushagen, but apparently this was only for NCOs, so your Private Chisholm would not have been held there. However, there must have been small camps and AKs all over the place, because in 1915 for example, about 18,000 Schneidemühl-registered PoWs were not at Schneidemühl, but at other camps in the region.

Interestingly, though probably coincidentally, only three miles from Klaushagen is a village that used to be called Schneidemühl (Schneidemühl bei Zicker, now Żerdno). But the Schneidemühl in the service record most likely refers to the central camp.

Company Quartermaster Serjeant T Duggan is listed among prisoners at Schneidemühl at
http://www.alsbury.co.uk/ww1/pila/pila_men.htm

The Royal Forest (Königlicher Forst Klaushagen, variously referred to as Klaushagener Forst, Forst Fünfsee, later Staatsforst Klaushagen) is north of the town between the main road north (now Route 163) and Klöpperfier (now Chłopowo).

Couple of old maps of Klaushagen and environs
From 1903: http://www.mapywig.org/m/German_maps/1870-1919/200K/400dpi//TUDR_46_Labes_1903-14.jpg
From 1936: http://amzpbig.com/maps/2363_Pohlen_1936.jpg
(let them load, then you should be able to right-click and Save As to your hard disk for easier viewing)

Adrian