Author Topic: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex  (Read 4278 times)

Offline kingofwessex

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Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« on: Friday 22 April 11 08:55 BST (UK) »
I am trying to trace the birth record of my Grandfather - Frederick Leonard Brookes. The earliest record that can be found is his marriage on July 25th 1921 in Sedlescombe, Sussex to Florence Mildred (nee Smith). - It is believed he may have moved to the area from 'the North or Midlands' for professional piano or organ tuition as he was a possible 'boy genius'.

I have found a few Frederick leonard Brookses in the West Bromwich area but none of the other known siblings appear in the Census - particularly interested in finding record of his sister - Lilian Eva May Sherwin - nee Brookes. SHe is believed to have owned - or run a guest house in St. Leonards, Sussex in the 40's or 50's - no birth records can be found for her either - nor for Frederick leonard's father - John Edward Brookes. Many family members have tried and failed to find the birth record of Frederick Leonard Brookes - I have tried everything i can think of - any help greatly appreciated. - Also background info on the Harmer family of Heathfield, Sussex - Florence Mildred SMith - my Gran - was the daughter of Sarah Harmer. Thanks again.
Brookes, Harmer, Rivers,Barnes,Ades,Reed,

Offline nanny jan

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 April 11 09:15 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat.  :)

What ages are shown on the marriage certificate for Frederick and Florence? 


Nanny Jan
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Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 April 11 09:51 BST (UK) »
There is a death record for Lilian E M SHERWIN, aged 41, Sep Q 1944 (Wandsworth 1d 386) - is this the right one?

If so, her birth is possibly registered as Lilian Eva M BROOKS (no "e"), Dec Q 1900 (Battle 2b 51).

It would match this 1901 census entry - Battle registration district covers Sedlescombe.

1901:
RG13/877/40/10 - Village, Sedlescombe, Sussex
Mark REED  Head  52  Milkman Door Carter  b. Sedlescombe
Caroline REED  Wife  53  b. Sedlescombe
Frederick REED  Son  2  b. Sedlescombe
Eva BROOKS  Dau  Married  19  Dressmaker  b. Brede
Lilian BROOKS  Dau  4 mo   b. Sedlescombe  (I think it's 4 months, not 4 years, but it's a bit scribbly.)

Marriages Jun 1900
BROOKS  John Edward
REED  Eva Annie
Medway 2a 1202   

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 April 11 09:55 BST (UK) »
I suspect that Frederick REED may also be Eva's son, and he later took the surname BROOKES.

There is a birth registration which would fit:

Births Mar 1899
REED  Frederick Leonard B
Battle 2b 60

The initial B might stand for Brooks?
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline kingofwessex

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 April 11 12:26 BST (UK) »
Nanny Jan - the ages of marriage were Frederick leonard Brookes 22 years, Florence Mildred SMith 23 years - I believe Frederick's birthday was 27th Feb 1899 - just don't know where.

Rambler - I will look into some of your suggestions - I had already found the Wandsworth death but am not sure if it links with other info - although I have found an UNnamed girl with surname Brookes born in Wandsworth which may fit if Lillian was registered before they had named her - I feel that I am clutching at straws here but you never know. Your suggestions offer very helpful insights which may prove very useful indeed - thank you very much - I will investigate a bit more.   :D
Brookes, Harmer, Rivers,Barnes,Ades,Reed,

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 April 11 17:24 BST (UK) »
A couple of quick questions:

What are the names of any other known siblings of Frederick and Lilian?

What is John Edward BROOKES' occupation on Frederick's marriage cert?  (I'm wondering whether it would tie up with an absent husband on the 1901 census record above.)
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kingofwessex

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 April 11 07:24 BST (UK) »
A couple of quick questions:

What are the names of any other known siblings of Frederick and Lilian?

What is John Edward BROOKES' occupation on Frederick's marriage cert?  (I'm wondering whether it would tie up with an absent husband on the 1901 census record above.)


John Edward Brookes occupation on Frederick's marriage certificate is - Gardner. Residence at time of marriage is given as - School Terrace, Sedlescombe.

I have searched based upon your earlier suggestion of Frederick Leonard B Reed - this seems to fit quite well. I followed this chain back to the 1300s and found  not only a Lord Mayor of London but a heroic figure from the Hundred Years' War - Sir Robert Knollys - though I rushed it a bit and may have made a mistake - I will have to spend some time checking my connections but it would be nice to eventually find some interesting ancestors - thanks again for your help Rambler
Brookes, Harmer, Rivers,Barnes,Ades,Reed,

Offline kingofwessex

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 April 11 07:27 BST (UK) »
A couple of quick questions:

What are the names of any other known siblings of Frederick and Lilian?

What is John Edward BROOKES' occupation on Frederick's marriage cert?  (I'm wondering whether it would tie up with an absent husband on the 1901 census record above.)


I have heard vague comments from my mum who thinks her dad Frederick had quite a few brothers - but I wouldn't put too much faith in that - my mum only knew her dad until she was about 6. She is fairly certain that one of the brothers was known as 'Ned'. Hope this is useful.
Brookes, Harmer, Rivers,Barnes,Ades,Reed,

Offline dick.sherwin

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Re: Frederick Leonard Brookes - married in Sedlescombe, Sussex
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 13:34 BST (UK) »
I've just come across your post of April 2011, and have some information for you, if you have not yet tracked it down, six years later! My grandmother was Lillian Eva Brookes, sister of Frederick. My research has found the following about their mother and her (eventual) husband, Eva Annie Reed and John Edward Brook(e)s.

John Edward Brooks was born in Westfield on 12 February 1878 and lived in Westfield with his parents, as recorded in the 1881 and 1891 censuses. Eva Annie Read was born on 1 June 1881 at Brede, and lived with her parents at Sedlescombe.

It would appear that he formed a liaison with Eva Annie Reed a dressmaker from Sedlescombe at some time around 1898, as, on 27 February 1899, she gave birth to a son, Frederick Leonard Brooks Reed (as he appears on his Birth Certificate), ‘near the schools’, Sedlescombe. No father is named on the birth certificate.

A little over a year later, on 6 May 1900, John Edward Brooks and Eva Annie Reed married at St Paul’s parish church in Chatham, Kent. He is described as a labourer, and they were both living at 33 Otway Street in Chatham. Eva is described as the daughter of Mark Reed, a labourer.
Eva gave birth to her second child, Lilian Eva May Brooks, on 30 November 1900 at Stapley Cottages, Sedlescombe. This time John is recorded on the birth certificate as the father, described as a farm labourer.

By the 1901 census Eva is found living with her parents, Mark and Caroline Reed, at Sedlescombe. Frederick is recorded aged 2, as Frederick Reed, son of Mark, whereas Lilian is recorded as Lilian Brooks 4 month old daughter of Eva. Eva is recorded as being a dressmaker. I can find no entry for John in the census.

Eva’s third child, Archibald Hubert Brooks, was born on 27 July 1904 at Stapley Cottages, Sedlescombe. Eva is described as the wife of John Edward Brooks, a general labourer, but the name of the child’s father is left blank on the birth certificate, leaving me to assume that it was not John.

The 1911 census records Eva living with her parents at School Terrace, Sedlescombe, and children, Frederick, Lilian and Archie Brooks. She is recorded as being married, and a domestic housekeeper.

Again I can find no record for John, in fact I have found no further record for him. He may have been alive in 1920 and 1921, as the marriage certificates of Lilian and Frederick both identify him as their father and a market garden labourer or gardener, and generally marriage certificates indicate if the father is deceased. However in Eva’s father, Mark  Reed’s will,  dated 12 February 1921, he makes special provision for Eva which is revoked ‘should she at any time marry again’ , which implies that she is unmarried at that date.

It is intriguing to speculate on John and Eva’s marriage, as there is no documentary evidence which I have found for them living together, he is not the informant on the birth certificates of Eva’s children, or living with her and her parents in the 1901 and 1911 censuses.