Author Topic: Wallis Surname  (Read 11191 times)

Offline john franks

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Wallis Surname
« on: Monday 16 May 11 17:29 BST (UK) »
I have very recently taken an interest in the Wallis surname in connection with a DNA project. I am aware that the name, like Wallace, has the sense of "foreigner" or "stranger" and was probably given to earlier inhabitants of Britain by Anglo-Saxons or Norman-French newcomers. A quick look at censuses seems to indicate that the Wallis surname may have originated in South-East England. Can anyone confirm this or tell me more about the name's origins?

Thanks

John
Mellanby One-name Study. Also family history of Walker, Braithwaite, Barrett, Weidner, Howard.

Offline 8889

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 29 January 12 20:59 GMT (UK) »
Mr. Franks , I cannot help you with Wallis ( unless any questions about Wallis and Steevens , Engineers , of Basingstoke ) but I can certainly help you with Weidner if there is a Liverpool or a Newcastle upon Tyne connection

Offline john franks

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #2 on: Monday 30 January 12 15:51 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your reply. I am interested in Weidner also. My great-grandmother was Harriet Weidner, born Liverpool in 1835, and married Joseph Mellanby at Alnwick in 1861 (my real name is John Mellanby).
Harriet's parents were Frederick and Esther. I am also aware that one or perhaps more  of the Weidners were prominent citizens of Newcastle at one time.

What really interests me is how the family got to Liverpool. I presume they came from Germany at some stage and Liverpool suggests that they may have been heading for North America.

However I would be glad of anything you can tell me about them.

John
Mellanby One-name Study. Also family history of Walker, Braithwaite, Barrett, Weidner, Howard.

Offline 8889

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #3 on: Monday 30 January 12 21:59 GMT (UK) »
' Evening John ,
 
Weidners , from memory .

John Frederik Weidner travelled from Slodheim ( ? Schlodheim , google it ) in Thuringia to England in the 1790's , as a young man from a family well established in Slodheim . He apparently settled in  Liverpool , because sometime later , in I fancy , the 1820's , he apprenticed his son to a tea and coffee merchant in that city . It was only a two year apprenticeship , which leads me to believe that the boy may have been quite old , and therefore educated , and presumably reasonably well to do and needing commercial experience .

My great Grandfather John Frederick Weidner was born in the 1850's in Newcastle , the son of J .F.Weidner , a clerk ( which could mean what we should call an office manager ) His mother was Mary Ann Gallon . Another Gallon , possibly a brother , owned land at Ponteland and Elsdon , and was rich enough to run his own pack of otterhounds . He drowned while hunting the otter in Dumfriesshire , and there is a memorial to him in Elsdon Church or churchyard . Your Harriett would seem to fit into the scheme somewhere , because you know of a Liverpool connection .

I know nothing of any siblings of my great grandfather ( who was Lord Mayor of Newcastle in 1912 or '13 ) except for a mention that he had a brother , who worked for the railway , which was most likely the NER , which had a near monopoly in the the North East . Harriet must fit in easily , but I am unsure
about the number of generations between JFW I and Alderman Weidner .

Alderman Weidner married Isabella Carverhill , and they had 10 children . I shall stop there because I am coming into living memory and it is not for me to post our family all over a public forum . I shall dig out the ' file ' and find any more details which I may have . I suggest that you Email me , if this is possible through this forum .

Wallis and Steevens of Basingstoke were ironfounders and general engineers , and both families were Quakers . Steevens was only a sleeping partner . Wallisses prospered for over a century , and finally closed their doors in the 1970's They specialised in traction engine building and as dealers and agents for agricultural machinery . Latterly they specialised in road rollers , both steam and diesel . I have a history of the firm , and this has a genealogy of the family . You are sure to find out more about the firm from a websearch .

It is coming up to my cocoa time , and I shall leave it there for now . I look forward to hearing from you

8889


Offline john franks

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 31 January 12 12:24 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, 8889, for the Weidner history. From memory I am pretty sure my connection is through the railway worker. I will look this up over the next day or two and send you a Rootschat Personal Message. Personal Messages are explained somewhere on the website. They are useful if members want to exchange anything a bit personal and also avoid boring other people.

John
Mellanby One-name Study. Also family history of Walker, Braithwaite, Barrett, Weidner, Howard.

Offline mercian41

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 02 September 12 16:04 BST (UK) »
Hi, John!

Only just found your post - now well over a year old - as I visit this
forum very infrequently.

I'm very interested in your area of research, though I don't know
whether I can contribute in any meaningful way in a genealogical sense.

I've always understood that the surname Wallis predates the Norman Conquest and is quite definitely a name used by Anglo-Saxons with respect to the relict Romano-British population of Britain whom they found dwelling in Britain after they settled in what later 'Engla-lond'. 

This name did not apply solely to what were to later become the Welsh, since not all Ancient Brits were driven across the border into Wales.  There are plenty of academic studies which corroborate this (though I strongly disagree with Francis Pryor in most respects). I'm pretty sure this surname cannot be pinned down just to SE England - and, of course , Wallace is an exceedingly common Scottish surname.

Now to my own problem:my own Wallis family dwelt in the Chipping Campden/Broadway area of N. Gloucs./SE Worcs from the late 17C till mid-19C, when many upped and moved to Brum, but I can find no trace of the birth of my earliest known ancestor Benjamin Wallis (see separate posting).  I've spent the past eleven years looking for him, but he seems to have been left by fairies under the proverbial gooseberry bush!

Now if you were to find anything out about him I'd be your pal for life
WARWICKSHIRE: POWERS, PAYNE, WILLS, CHA(U)NDLER, FE(A)RN, WIMBLETT (WIMLETT), LOACH, DOLEY, PRESTIGE/PESTRIDGE, HUNT, ROBERTS,WARD, COX, OAKES, MALIN, COMPTON, BEST, TENNANT, DAVIS, SHREEVE (SHREEVES, SREEVE)

GLOUCESTERSHIRE: WALLIS (WALLACE), BEECHEY, STANLEY, YEATES, WISE, PHIPPS, SANDFORD, STANLEY, WIMBLETT (WIMLETT), GOLDICUT/COLDICOT, HOLTHAM

WORCESTERSHIRE: WALLIS (WALLACE), WALTER (WALTERS, WATERS). STANLEY, RADWAY, PORTER, DYKE, HOLTHAM

OXFORDSHIRE: BEECHEY

Offline john franks

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 05 September 12 17:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Mercian,

Thanks for your interest in my post. I have to disappoint you though as I can't help with you directly with your Benjamin Wallis query. You may be well aware of these sources but in researching my name, Mellanby, I have found Bishop's Transcripts and early wills to be very useful. I am fortunate since in County Durham a lot of this material is in the care of Durham University and is being made available to amateur researchers in various ways - just wondered if your local universities might be any use in this regard?

 My interest in Wallis arose from a DNA project I got involved in. As you may know in some such projects it is customary for participants to give the name of their earliest known ancestor (males in this case), the idea being that some indication of geographic origins may result. However I think a better indication might be found if surname origins are taken into account. The names I was looking at included Mellanby (my own name, probably from Cumbria), Livingstone, Lockhart, Stewart, Wallace and Wallis. There is clearly a "North British" look about this group but I wondered what the connection was between Wallace and Wallis given that Wallis has a Southern English origin; could it be that both names arose when Germanic-speaking tribes came over to Britain and called the people who were already here "Wal-something"? If this were the case then it might be expected that the Wal-somethings had similar DNA to one another and hence modern Wallace and Wallis's  appear in the same project.

I believe this is a reasonable proposition but I have come to realise that it will have to remain mere speculation as it would require a huge amount of research to test it properly. The main reason for this is that, although the name experts can fairly confidently tell us about the origins of many surnames, we can never be sure that the modern bearers of a name are directly descended from the original bearer.

You mention Francis Pryor. I must say that I have enjoyed his books. He seems to be asking some difficult questions of his fellow archaeologists although I have no idea what they think of him!.

I hope all this makes some sort of sense.

John   
Mellanby One-name Study. Also family history of Walker, Braithwaite, Barrett, Weidner, Howard.

Offline mercian41

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 05 September 12 17:52 BST (UK) »
John

Thanks for your post.

In offering an explanation about the derivation and use of the term 'Welsh' and possible connection to the name Wallace/Wallis I left the story incomplete.

I happen to be by qualification and profession (ex-language teacher) a Germanist, as well as having a passionate interest in anything to do with language and languages. 

In the dialects and non-standard forms of German in Southern Germany and Austria, terms related to the English word 'Welsh' are regularly used to refer to non-German speakers (mainly South Slavs, i.e. Croats and Slovenes) and speakers of Romansch, French and Italian in Switzerland.  Canton Valais in W. Switzerland (French-speaking mainly) is called 'Wallis' in German.  So you see, there is a good historic pedigree to this particular term.

In short, I think that in Britain of 500 CE 'Welsh'  was used for anyone who was not of one's own local tribe or 'people' in the narrowest sense with the generalised meaning of 'outsider', 'foreigner' or 'outlander'.

 
WARWICKSHIRE: POWERS, PAYNE, WILLS, CHA(U)NDLER, FE(A)RN, WIMBLETT (WIMLETT), LOACH, DOLEY, PRESTIGE/PESTRIDGE, HUNT, ROBERTS,WARD, COX, OAKES, MALIN, COMPTON, BEST, TENNANT, DAVIS, SHREEVE (SHREEVES, SREEVE)

GLOUCESTERSHIRE: WALLIS (WALLACE), BEECHEY, STANLEY, YEATES, WISE, PHIPPS, SANDFORD, STANLEY, WIMBLETT (WIMLETT), GOLDICUT/COLDICOT, HOLTHAM

WORCESTERSHIRE: WALLIS (WALLACE), WALTER (WALTERS, WATERS). STANLEY, RADWAY, PORTER, DYKE, HOLTHAM

OXFORDSHIRE: BEECHEY

Offline john franks

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Re: Wallis Surname
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 06 September 12 16:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Mercian,

Thanks for that explanation which I find very interesting.  It also confirms I was correct not to pursue my DNA/surname/linguistic theories too far!

John
Mellanby One-name Study. Also family history of Walker, Braithwaite, Barrett, Weidner, Howard.