Mary Catherine Jones from Portmadog/Carnarvonshire

[agoryliver]

I am trying to research my Gr,Gr Grandma called Mary Catherine Jones, but I have hit a well built brick wall. I have the following information....

Marriage certificate.
She was married 1st July 1886 to Henry Hull at St. Mary Extra near (now in) Southampton. She was of full age, a spinster, occupation maidservant and her residence at time of marriage was St.Mary Extra. She gave her father's name as James Jones, occupation Tailor.

Censuses.
1891. Mary C Hull, age 26, from Portmadog, Carnarvonshire.
1901. Mary C Hull, age 36, from Portmadoc, Carnarvonshire.

I have a copy of a birth certificate, but I'm wondering if I have ordered the right one.
The details are as follows....
Born 16th Feb 1864 at Glasfryn House, Pwllheli. Name Mary Catherine, Girl, Father, Owen Jones, occupation Draper, informant Mary Jones, Mother, Glasfryn House, Pwllheli. Date registered 25th March 1864.

The trouble is that I have noticed that there are several Mary Catherine Jones's in the area at the same time. I would also love to know why she moved from Carnarvonshire to Southampton area. I feel that I can only proceed with this when I know information such as her date of birth, names of parents and siblings and exact address in Wales, etc.

If anyone has any information or tips on how I can further this research then I would be extremely grateful.

Gary.

 

[Keith]

Portmadoc births would have come under the Festiniog Registration District.

There is a Mary Catherine Jones registered at Festiniog in the June Quarter 1863.

The references are June Quarter Festiniog 11b 461 (GRO index), or ARDB1/13/E7 (Local office through Gwynedd Council).

It would probably be best to use the local office and ask them to check the father's name. You can order by phoning 01766 771000. If you need them to check anything email cofrestryddion@gwynedd.gov.uk

[Jo Harding]

Hello agoryliver,

Have you tried to find Mary and her family in the census returns? She should be there in 1871 and 1881 before she married. The 1871 should show her family, father James etc.

I have had a quick look for her in the 1871 in Caernarvonshire but couldn't find her there. Did the family move south perhaps?

Jo.

[EmyrBorth]

Hi,
Don't think that the Pwllheli birth is the correct one. It appears that the Pwllheli family moved to Llanllyfni Parish and Mary catherine is still there in 1891 Census. The father is Owen, not James Jones as on the marriage certificate.
As Keith says if born in Portmadoc it would have been registered under Festiniog  District at that time.

Have you got an actual copy of the marriage certificate, or a copy filled in on a blank form by the current registrar ? Is it possible that 'Tailor' should read 'Sailor'?

There's a  civil marriage recorded in Festiniog District, first quarter of 1864, between a James Jones and Jane Hatcher. The marriage is after the birth which Keith mentions, which is not unusual, especially if the father is away at sea. There is a Jane Hatcher living in Southampton according to the 1861 Census, and also a James Jones, Traveller, Seaman, aged 26, place of birth not recorded. In 1851 there is a James Jones, aged 14, son of a Mariner, living in Portmadoc. Can't trace him after that. It's possible that James/Jane moved from Portmadoc down to Southampton area. It's possible that James died and that Mary and child(ren) moved near to her family.
Emyr

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Had a look at Ynyscynhaiarn (Portmadoc area) Parish Register today. There's a baptism of a Mary Catherine, daughter of James (TAILOR) and Jane Jones. The date I've recorded is 26/03/1865, but I'm having doubts about whether I've recorded the year correctly; I'll check - possibly tomorrow.
Emyr

[agoryliver]

 Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

I really feel that you have found the right people. When I wrote my 1st post, I wanted to keep it as short as possible, I thus didn't mention that the witnesses to Henry Hull & Mary Catherine Jones's wedding in 1886 were.... Emma A Stuart and Richard Hatcher! Maybe Richard Hatcher is a cousin or uncle of Mary Catherine?

Also, I went to Southampton Archives today to see if I could find the baptisms of Jane & Richard Hatcher and if (a long shot) James & Jane Jones had more children in Southampton. Unfortunately, there seem to be none of the above in Southampton. While there, I asked an archivist if, in her opinion, whether the photocopy (that cost me 10p instead of £9) of the parish register entry of Henry Hull & Mary Catherine Jones's marriage would be the same as if I obtained a copy of the certificate from GRO. She said it would be and that James Jones's occupation says Tailor not Sailor. She also said that it is possible that the vicar could have misheard the word Sailor, and wrote Tailor instead. This is quite common apparently.

I then went on Ancestry at the library and found out the following from the censuses....

1851 census, Jane Hatcher, age 19, unmarried, laundress, daughter of Richard & Elizabeth Hatcher,
born Southampton, Hants.

1861 census, Jane Hatcher, age 29,unmarried, laundress, daughter of Elizabrth Hatcher(no Richard)
born Southampton, Hants.

1871 census, Jane Hicks, age 39, wife of Thomas Hicks, age 38, occupation Ships Fireman. Jane born Southampton, Hants. No children listed.

1881 census, Jane E Hicks, age 49, wife of Thomas Hicks, age 48, occupation Ships stoker, Seaman. Jane born Southampton, Hants. No children listed but there are the following....
Elizabeth Hatcher, Mother, widow, age 79, Laundress and Alfred Hatcher, son (of Elizabeth presumably) , unmarried, age 38, occupation Chemist porter, born Southampton, Hants.

I then found on BMD the following marriage....

Thomas Hicks & Jane E Hatcher. June quarter 1866 at Southampton.

Again I thank you heartily for your time in this research, I genuinely couldn't do it without you.

Gary.

[EmyrBorth]

Hi,
According to North Wales BMD website, James/Jane's wedding was a civil one, so presumably would not appear in the Parish Register. I'll check the Ynyscynhaiarn Register in case.
If it's not there, and you decide to order a certificate, let me know James' father's name.
Emyr

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Can confirm, year of baptism is 1865. There's another 3 entries a couple of pages afterwards where 3 siblings have been baptised together, aged 6, 4 and 2 years. So baptism can take place well after the birth.
The wedding is not recorded in the Parish Register.
Emyr
 

[agoryliver]

Hi Emyr,

 I have ordered the following certificates....

 Birth, Mary Catherine Jones-June quarter 1863@Festiniog.
 Marriage, James Jones & Jane Hatcher-March quarter1864@Festiniog.

I will reply with the salient details when the certificates have arrived, next week probably.

Thank you again for your help and time with this research.
 Gary.