1841 /51/61 census lookup, William VINE

[silicondale]

1838 marriage certificate of Esther Vine b.1822 gives her father's name as William Vine, occupation miller, address 1 Vine Place (Brighton). Pigot 1832-4 directory gives his address as Church Hill, Brighton.

However, there are several possible William Vines. Might be possible to identify which by finding her mother's name - hence the importance of the census!  We know he was still living in 1838. However there's a William Vine death recorded in March 1841 (just before the census of course) - but a record of a Vine widow at a Church Hill address in 1841 or 1851 would be pretty conclusive. Can anybody help, please ?

And any evidence for 1 Vine Place being a genuine address ?

[suepi]

Hi,
sorry do not have 1841/51 census but this is from the 1861 census
1861 Rg9/602 Folio 58 Page 45
1 Vine Place
followed by Dyke Rd, Church Hill House
then 2 – 10 Vine Place followed by
Dyke Rd, Church Hill cottage
hope this helps
Sue

[silicondale]

Thanks, Sue - I guess by 1861 there aren't any of the Vine family still living there ?

[muvva]

I googled for Vine Place, Brighton and found this.... complete with pictures.

"Vine Place is the access to the tiny one-storey cottages that were the original mill-workers' cottages to Clifton windmill."

http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/tour_clifton_vine_place.htm

[suepi]

no Vines there in 1861
Sue

[Jane Masri]

Hi,
I found this likely marriage from the Sussex Marriage Index, for a William Vine which could be the parents of Esther, note he's down as a miller!

Archdeaconry of Lewes Marriage Licence,  Date: 23 May 1803:
 William VINE, bach 21+ miller Heathfd
 Mary BRADFORD, sp 21+ Willingdon
Extra Information: SRS 26 ss: W.V.; William PEARPOINT bricklayer Lewes



 Willingdon, East Sussex,  Date: 24 May 1803:
 William VINE, Heathfield
 Mary BRADFORD, otp  (lic)
Extra Information: Witness wit: Ann CHASE; Chas. VIRRELL

Jane

 

 

[silicondale]

Muvva - Many thanks. Why didn't I think of Google ? I use it al the time. I guess I just didn't think it would turn up anything useful.

Sue - as I expected. When William Vine died, his widow and children had to find somewhere else to live - presumably they sold the mill - or were evicted by the owner who needed to install a new miller.

Jane - That's a very encouraging lead, and much more likely than any of the others that I had found. 1803 was a bit earlier than I'd been looking for, but I've now found the record on IGI. Worth taking further. Many thanks!

I guess that refines the census lookup request. One of the witnesses at Esther Vine's marriage was a Martha Vine. Since her mother was probably Mary, this was most likely her sister. So what I would hope to find is somewhere (in Brighton?) a Mary Vine b.c1780 and a daughter Martha b. between 1804 and 182x - maybe other children too, though quite possible all would have flown the nest even by 1841.

[muvva]

Gosh, it took a while to find the pages for Vine street as Brighton is so large!  Mary Vine's age is given as 55, but I believe that in 1841 ages were rounded down to the nearest 5. So she could have been as old as 69, which ties in with your estimated birth year of 1780. Or, she could just have fibbed about her age! You didn't say what Esther's married name was, so I looked on FreeBMD and amongst the list of possible grooms is a John Henley. Esther and John Henley just happen to be living with Mary!

1841 census, Brighton
Palace Registration District
Enumeration District 18
Parish of St Saviour

Vine Place (living in the first house)
Mary Vine, 55, miller
James, 17, miller
Esther Henley, 22
John Henley, no age given, occupation Tailor (or Sailor?)
Esther Henley, 2

HO107/1122A : folio 31 : page 20

I have my fingers crossed that this is your family!
Chris

[silicondale]

Hello, Chris - I really do appreciate your efforts  . It certainly is the right family, and a stroke of luck that John Henley was actually living at the same address. Esther Henley aged 2 was their eldest daughter and crops up again in the 1881 census living at her father John's house after the death of her husband. John was indeed a tailor as were his son George and his grandson Albert (my grandfather). Also now Esther has a brother James for us to follow up !