name help to unlock my tree

[Ruskie]

That looks promising Mo. 

I did have a fairly thorough look at censuses yesterday, but like you eharkin1, I couldn't find a Thomas with a daughter with any of those first names in the right area ... you'd expect her to be able to be found as a 2 year old with parents in the 1871 census.

There are a lot of Rylands (and variations in Lancashire) .... 

[mosiefish]

Hi,

I have started to think he was in hiding from somebody    However, Ryland is open to various mistranscriptions especially if the person couldn`t write so it was based on dialect etc.   

This is all I can come up with to date based on the Thomas in the 1891 census born Danbury - don`t laugh      There is a certain logic in comparing  the 1861 to the 1871 especially as son William was born Strood which is where the "Riley" family were living in 1861. 

1851
Alms Houses, Parish of Danbury, Essex
Thomas Rylen, 17, Ag Lab, Woodham

30th  August, 1857
A Thomas Riley marries Mary Ann Woolnough at St. Marys Church, Chediston. Suffolk

1861
Gun Lane, Strood, Kent
Thomas Riley. Head.  Mar, 27, Brickmakers Labourer, Danbury Essex
Mary Ann, Wife, Mar, 22, Suffolk Chediston
Ellen, Daur, 2, Suffolk Halesworth

1871
2 Swan Lane, Rotherhithe, Surrey
William Smith  , Head, Mar, 37, Labourer, Danbury Essex (I told you not to laugh.  It could be an enumerator error)
Mary Ann, Wife, Mar, 32, Suffolk Halesworth
Helen, Daur, 12, Suffolk Halesworth
William, Son, 9, Kent Strood
Emma, Daur, 5, Surrey Rotherhithe
Betsey, Daur, 3, Surrey, Rotherhithe
Martha, Daur, 1, Surrey Rotherhithe

I still can`t find any of them on the 1881 census 

Death of Mary Ann Ryland registered Sept. Qtr.  1890 West Ham age 51

Mo

[eharkin1]

wow, thanks so much for your info and help everyone. Thats great.

Im gonna use this info with Emma Holmes to order her marriage certificate and see if betsy is a witness for her and wether thomas is listed as her father.

Also the thomas ryland info is fantastic, im not quite sure what to order first to see if it links in correctly.

Any suggestions on what would be best to order first? I wonder if betsy is registered under a different surname at birth??

Once again, huge thanks!

[mosiefish]

Hi,

Emmas marriage is on the new family search:
https://www.familysearch.org/

13th January, 1889 Canning Town

George Ernest Holmes, 21 Father George Holmes
Emma Ryland, 20, Father Thomas Ryland

The only thing I don`t like is Emmas age, but she might have been a tad economical with the truth. Or it could be a different family that also appear to be missing on the census! 

Mo

[mosiefish]

Hi,

I keep wondering if Emmas age was incorrect on the 1871 census.  The only births I could come up with using first names or various surnames  in Rotherhithe turned up these two:

Betsey Riley and Emma Riley both on the same page for Rotherhithe registration district  December Qtr 1867 Volume 1a page 669.      It may explain why there were both roughly the same age in later census, but I would be guessing and I don`t want to lead you down the wrong path.   I can`t find a death for either before 1871 nor a suitable "Riley" census entry later.  We also have to remember that it wasn`t actually a finable offence not register a birth before 1875,  Before that date it was up to the Registrar to seek them out.

Going cross eyed,

Good luck

Mo

[eharkin1]

hi there

sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I have finally received the birth certificates for both girls.
Turns out they were twins!!.

Mary Ann Woolnough is their mother and thomas riley (a gas stoker) the father.

It looks like the family were possibly illiterate as the mother signed both certificates with an X.

Im wondering if the father was iliterate, could that be why the name was william smith?

[mosiefish]

Hi,

Thank you so much for letting us know the outcome.  They certainly gave us the runaround.  I don`t think we will ever know why he was listed as William Smith.  He certainly knew that his surname was Ryland and not Riley when it came to the childrens marriages and his wife`s death.   

I still wonder where they got to on the 1881 census.

Thanks again,
Mo