Author Topic: Coleman - Dundee  (Read 10323 times)

Offline alasdair_13

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Coleman - Dundee
« on: Friday 01 July 11 15:37 BST (UK) »
Piecing together the Coleman's of Dundee in late 1800s.

Henry Coleman was born in West Midlands and had been married twice already (to unknown spouses) before marrying Annie Nicklin in Birmingham 27/05/1878

At some point they moved to Dundee where Henry became a Brussels carpet weaver and later a licensee or spirit dealer (a bit unclear) They had 5 children: Edward (c.1877); Mabel Maud (c 1881); Lilian (c1884); Harry (c 1887) and Frederick (c 1891 and my direct ancestor).

Henry senior is on the 1891 census for Dundee, but not the 1901, however he died in Dundee in 1907. His wife seemingly went on to marry a James Gordon but I can't find a record of this marriage though it does say they were married on Annie's death cert from 1940 (in irvine).

Something strange going on with his daughter Mabel as well whoe was the informant on Henry;s death cert, but written as Mabel Beaufort of Ashford, Kent. She turns up on 1911 England census as married to Louis Beaufort - he is at least 30 years her senior and a musician. He dies in1923 and Mabel disappears.

Anything on this would be welcome.

Offline ev

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #1 on: Friday 01 July 11 15:51 BST (UK) »
hi alasdair  :)

looks like them in 1881

20 alexander st. dundee
henry coleman 42 carpet weaver born england
annie coleman 23 b. england
mabel maud coleman 6m b. dundee

ev
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Offline Gali

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #2 on: Friday 01 July 11 16:03 BST (UK) »
Did you see in 1901 a Henry Coleman, born England c. 1841 a boarder in St Andrews? 


Offline Gali

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #3 on: Friday 01 July 11 16:17 BST (UK) »
Also see a 1891 Dundee census for a James Coleman, Brussels Carpet Weaver, b. 1844 in England and on the 1901 census he's back in Kidderminster ... Henry's brother? 

Offline Gali

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #4 on: Friday 01 July 11 16:19 BST (UK) »
1851 census for Kidderminster has an Isaac Coleman b.1802 with sons Henry and James ... lots to go on looks like

Offline alasdair_13

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 16:55 GMT (UK) »
From the other strand I've posted on - just to share this photo I came across quite by chance being sold on artfact.com and described as one of a series of "cabinet photos by Downey and Tourtin" - Downey appears to have been a pretty high profile photographer in London. Do you reckon this could be my Mabel?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,555157.msg4369599.html#msg4369599

Offline alasdair_13

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #6 on: Friday 26 October 12 13:32 BST (UK) »
I’ve been away from this forum for a while but have recently returned following some further digging around, and further dead-ends, on my Coleman ancestry so if anyone is able to help me shed any light on any of the issues I’ve uncovered I’d be very grateful indeed.

The basics:

Henry Coleman, was born (probably) in January 1839 (baptised 25 Jan 1839) in Kidderminster. He was the son of Isaac and Mary Coleman. It looks like he married 1st Ann Whitehead 25/10/1862 but she dies 1875. He then possibly marries Frances Wharton 28/08/1876 but she dies a year later in Oct – Dec 1877. All in Kidderminster.
Henry then marries Annie Nicklin 27/05/1878 in Birmingham and appears in the Scottish 1881 census living in Dundee.

At that time their only child registered living with them is Mabel Maud, a daughter born 25/09/1880 in Dundee.
All well and good so far. At the next Scottish census in 1891 they have four other children: Edwen (sic!) who by age indicates he was born in 1877 (definitely not in Scotland). Lillian Elsie (b 1882 Dundee), Harry Ewart (b Dundee 1885).

Annie was also pregnant at the time of the census as my own direct ancestor Frederick James was born 25/07/1891, after the census was taken.

The major problem(s) I have are that none of them seem to turn up on any census thereafter (with the exception of Mabel in 1911 when she is “married” to Louis Beaufort – see earlier thread entries).  So where are they all?
Add into this, in 1901 Scottish census, Henry is living alone as a boarder in Dundee with no sign of the rest of his family. I know Annie later went on to “marry” a James Gordon but there’s no marriage record despite this being indicated on her death certificate (27/5/1940 Ayrshire).

My ancestor, Frederick James, later took the name Gordon (he died 18/10/1918 at home in Glasgow from infected gunshot wounds inflicted at the Battle of Cambrai the previous year).
Did she simply elope with James Gordon and take his name, giving his name to her youngest son as well. What happened to her other children? Did they take the name Gordon? Did they leave Scotland/UK?
And as before, I’ve no idea what happened to Mabel after her husband Louis died in 1923 (she is mentioned in the death cert so can pinpoint her to then).

Simply don’t know where to turn to to try to figure all this out.

Offline alasdair_13

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 13:01 GMT (UK) »
An addendum to my last post from October 2012. I have located Henry Coleman's will from August 1904: he leaves his gold watch and chain to his youngest son (and my ancestor) Frederick James - in the will he states "...who is living with his mother at... by Greenock who is living in adultery with a man named James Gordon formerly of Arbroath". He leaves his bank book and all other effects to his oldest daugher, Mabel Maude. The will states she "...is married to a man named Louis Beaufort Musician Eng." It continues, rather sadly, ..."I know nothing about any other member of my family"

This enabled me to locate Frederick James in the 1901 Scottish census - he is indeed noted as step-son to James Gordon, at a house in Dunoon, but there is no sign of Annie. I've still drawn a blank on the 1911 census (anywhere in the UK) for any of the family so still a big gap in knowledge of their destiny.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Coleman - Dundee
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 14:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alasdair

Young Harry Ewart Coleman looks to have joined the Navy by 1901 going by this entry http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7148340

And a death:

Harry Ewart Coleman b. 14 Oct 1885, died aged 86 in Weymouth, Dorset. Vol. 7c, pg 580. Death registered in Dec. 1971

Monica  :)
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