Author Topic: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903  (Read 6893 times)

Offline TropiConsul

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no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« on: Thursday 14 July 11 06:36 BST (UK) »
Why am I unable to find a death certificate in Scotland's People for John Simpson Dunsmore between 1901 and 1904?  He appears in the 1901 census at Royal Oak Hotel, 169 Stirling Street, Denny, Stirlingshire, Scotland with occupation as hotel keeper, own account, age 67.  The death certificate for his spouse, Mary Rennie in 1904, describes her as the widow of John Simpson Dunsmore.  He was born about 1833 in Shirva, Kirkintilloch, Dumbartonshire, Scotland.  The census for 1891 shows him as hotel keeper, Royal Oak Hotel, employer, age 57. 
Both of my grandmother's grandfathers were hotel keepers.  The paternal grandfather died in 1868 and left an estate of nearly 500 pounds, but I have no info on the estate or date of death for the maternal grandfather.
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline daval57

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 July 11 06:54 BST (UK) »
Unsure yet why he is not on Scotlands People but this might help.
He appears to have been buried in Denny Cemetery, date of death 14 Oct 1901 age 88.
Mary Rennie is there too plus other Dunsmores that might be related.
See this page on momento-mori  http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/20.pd

Momento-mori may have more info and photogragh of any stone.  Their fees are very reasonable.

Dave
-------------------
FORREST (Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Dunbartonshire)
ROONEY (Co Down, Co Antrim) 
BORTHWICK, FORTUNE, BARKER, SIVES (Lothians)
ANDERSON (Moray, Caithness)

Offline apanderson

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 July 11 07:03 BST (UK) »
Was just going to post exactly the same as Dave!

 :)


Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 July 11 00:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks guys.  I found the OPR showing he was baptized 9 May 1813 and married Mary Rennie on 21 Dec 1858.  That means he was 45 years old when he took a bride of 21.  His first child of that marriage was born less than seven months later and his last child was born in 1882 when he was 68 or 69 years old.  I suppose that makes him the Anthony Quinn of his generation! His father-in-law was his senior by three years. 

It also means that his parents were John Dunsmore and Jean or Jane Gray who married on 17 Dec 1803 rather than William Dunsmore and Catherine Gray who married 5 Aug 1832.  These Lanarkshire Dunsmore men seem to have had a thing for the Gray women!

Of course I have to wonder why he took twenty years off his age when he reported it to the census enumerators in 1891 and 1901.
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 13 October 11 01:41 BST (UK) »
I have reviewed the data and conducted additional searches.  The 1858 marriage certificate for John Dunsmore and Mary Rennie shows his age to be 25 yrs and hers to be 22 yrs and records his parents as William Dunsmore and Catherine Gray.  I have yet to find a birth/baptism or death record for John Dunsmore but he does appear in the 1901 census for Denny with his age recorded as 67 yrs.  This persuades me that the Denny cemetary record that shows his age to be 88 at time of burial was mis-transcribed and the actual age at time of death/burial was 68 yrs.  His parents were married 5 Aug 1832 and he was the eldest child.  All of this information points to his birth having ocurred in 1833.   
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 26 October 11 00:51 BST (UK) »
You will find that the age of John Simpson Dunsmore at death is actually 68 years.  John Simpson Dunsmore was born about 1833 in Airdrie, Lanarkshire, Scotland. The census for 1891 and 1901 show his occupation as hotel keeper of The Royal Oak Hotel which is a hotel in Denny situated in the heart of Scotland, and is an old coaching inn located on the original north road, now the A872 , 7 miles south of Stirling.  He married Mary Rennie in 1858.  Strangely, I cannot find a birth record for John Simpson Dunsmore, but his parents are documented in his marriage record.  John and Mary were married 21 Dec 1858 in New Kilpatrick where his age is given as 25 and hers as 22.

Mary Rennie was born in Cochno, the daughter of James Mathie Rennie, a prosperous Kessington farmer and breeder of prize winning Ayrshire cattle.  James Mathie Rennie died in 1862 and his testament (probate of will) left an estate of over 700 British pounds.  This sum when calculated as a percent of Gross Domestic Product is equivalent to 560,000 UK pounds or $812,000 at today's rate of exchange (calculated on 6/12/2010).

THE FARMER'S MAGAZINE, VOLUME THE FOURTEENTH, JULY TO DECEMBER MDCCCLVIII, DUMBARTONSHIRE CATTLE SHOW-
The following is the list of successful competitors in the various classes :
Single two year old queys, calved or near calving—1, John Houston, Geilston; 2, James Rennie, Kessington; 3, James Moncur, Bowline.
Bulls under eighteen months old—1, John Smith, Highdykes ; 2, James Rennie, Kessington
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline apanderson

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 29 October 11 10:14 BST (UK) »
Cross-referencing a thread on the Leeds Board:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=562596.msg4158431

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 30 October 11 02:44 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks to Daval57 for the suggestion that I engage the services of Memento-mori.  Memento-mori did a brilliant job of capturing the images of the graveyard memorial for my 2nd great-grandfather buried in Denny Cemetery.   The grave marker confirms that he died in Leeds.  It also provides information on a number of John Simpson Dunsmore's descendants. 
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline daval57

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 30 October 11 13:24 GMT (UK) »
Great result.
Easy to see how age at death was mistranscribed as 88 instead of 68.
Hope the details from the stone lead you to other connections.

Dave
-------------------
FORREST (Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Dunbartonshire)
ROONEY (Co Down, Co Antrim) 
BORTHWICK, FORTUNE, BARKER, SIVES (Lothians)
ANDERSON (Moray, Caithness)