Author Topic: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903  (Read 6844 times)

Offline sancti

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 30 October 11 13:55 GMT (UK) »
1841 census

William Dunsmore 32  born: Lanarkshire, Scotland Occupation: Overseer Of A Colliery
Catherine Dunsmore 25
Margt Dunsmore 10
John Dunsmore 7
William Dunsmore 5
Mary Dunsmore 3
Janet Dunsmore 1
James Beveridge 25
 
 
Address: North St Airdrie


1881 census

John Dunsmore 46 Head born Airdrie Occupation: Hotel Keeper
Mary Dunsmore 43
Mary S Dunsmore 21
William Dunsmore 19
James R Dunsmore 18
John Dunsmore 16
Alexr R Dunsmore 10
Cathrine G Dunsmore 8
Eliza R Dunsmore 4
Pennel B Dunsmore 1
Alexr Stevenson 13
Alexr Rennie 45
Margaret Kinniburgh 18
 
 
Address: 71 Glasgow Rd Washington Hotel Kirkintilloch

Offline sancti

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 30 October 11 14:07 GMT (UK) »
1871

John Dunsmore 38 born Airdrie Occupation: Hotel Keeper
Mary Dunsmore 33
Mary S Dunsmore 11
William Dunsmore 9
James R Dunsmore 8
Alexander R Dunsmore 5 MO
Elisabeth Mckee 18
John Dunsmore 6
Margaret Ninnis 11

Address: High St Crossa Inn Kirkintilloch


1861

John Dunsmore 27 born Glasgow  ??? Occupation: Coal Merchant
Mary Dunsmore 24
Mary S Dunsmore 1
Elisabeth Rennie 19
Helen Sweeny 15

Address: Cowgate Victoria Place Kirkintilloch
 
 

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 30 October 11 15:32 GMT (UK) »
And for my 100th post on RootsChat:

1911 Census Bonnybridge (love that name!) Stirling
Catherine Ferguson, age 39, wife of James Ferguson

Her name is inscribed on the Denny Cemetery grave marker as follows-

In memory of
JOHN SIMPSON DUNSMORE
Who died at Leeds
14th October 1901 aged 68 years
His son JOHN
Who died at Denny
17th November 1897 aged 31 years
His daughter BESSIE
Wife of James Adam
Who died at Killamarsh, Sheffield
19th December 1901 aged 25 years
His wife MARY RENNIE who died at Dumbarton
9th January 1904 aged 67 years
ALEX. R. DUNSMORE
Died 6th May 1914 aged 44 years
MARY S. DUNSMORE
Died 23rd June 1924 aged 65 years
DAVID R. DUNSMORE
Died 25th September 1936 aged 54 years
CATHERINE G. FERGUSON
Died 5th September 1917 aged 45 years
Erected by Mary Rennie his widow
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie


Offline apanderson

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 30 October 11 16:58 GMT (UK) »
A marriage showing on Scotland's People:

1894 at Denny, Stirlingshire James S. Ferguson and Catherine Gray Dunsmore (Gros 476/01 0023)

Anne

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 November 11 04:08 GMT (UK) »
John Simpson Dunsmore married Mary Kerr Rennie on 21 Dec 1858 at Kessington, New Kilpatrick, Lanarkshire.  They had the following children:
Mary Scott Dunsmore   7 Jun 1859   Kirkintilloch
William Dunsmore      5 May 1861   Kirkintilloch
James Rennie Dunsmore   11 Mar 1863   Kirkintilloch
John Dunsmore      4 Feb 1865   Kirkintilloch
Alexander Rennie Dunsmore   1 Oct 1870   Kirkintilloch
Catherine Gray Dunsmore   4 Feb 1873   Kirkintilloch
Robert Dunsmore      1 Oct 1874   Kirkintilloch
Elizabeth Rennie Dunsmore   26 May 1876   Kirkintilloch
Penuel Bailie Dunsmore   29 May 1879   Kirkintilloch
David Rennie Dunsmore   11 Oct 1882   Kirkintilloch

I also found the illegitimate birth to Helen Fulton of a child she named John Simpson Dunsmore Fulton on 25 Jun 1858! No father appears on the birth record. 
Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 03 November 11 22:48 GMT (UK) »
his testament (probate of will)

Probate has no meaning in Scotland - it is an English Law term. The corresponding term in Scots Law is confirmation. So if you are looking for probate records in Scotland you are likely to have a frustrating and ultimately unsuccessful search ;)

See http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/wills.asp for a comprehensive guide to this topic.

Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #15 on: Friday 04 November 11 00:22 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian, the site you cite provides the following: "Probates resealed-
Before 1858, if a person who normally lived in England, Ireland or Wales died owning moveable property in Scotland, the Commissary Court of Edinburgh was responsible for his or her executry, as it was, indeed, for those in the same situation in other parts of the world. From 1858, the procedure of 'probates resealed' was introduced. By this mechanism, the succession to the moveable Scottish property belonging to individuals normally resident in England, Wales or Ireland could be arranged by the English, Welsh or Irish court simply sending a copy of the local grant of probate or letters of administration to the Edinburgh Commissary Court. Up to 1901 these records are included in the ScotlandsPeople website. From 1902 onwards they can be found in the Calendar of Confirmations."

Thus the term "probate" has some standing in Scottish law, but I am grateful for learning the equivalence of "confirmation" to "probate".   Probate is universally understood here in the USA where even a former slave could be expected to own a cabin and a garden; or farm animals and implements; and could dispose of them without hindrance by recording a holograph will or, if illiterate, dictating a will with witnesses to his mark of hand.  I did find two testaments in this family (one from John Simpson Dunsmore's father-in-law) and downloaded them from Scotland's People.  I think the county courthouse in the USA was a bastion of liberty, not of oppresion. It is certainly indispensible to the genealogist.  I can track some ancestors to children born in the New England colonies in the 1640's.  The records get very dodgy when you cross the Atlantic.   

Campbell, McDonald, Sprague, Dunsmore, Altgelt, Paterson, Gordon, Rennie, Gorrie, Myles, Forbes, Stewart, Robertson,  Scott, McEwan, MacCallum, McLagan, Perth, Dull, Lanark, Airdrie, Campbeltown, Saddell, Kessington, Cochno, Milngavie, Rutherglen, Kilsyth, Dundee, Killin, Ferryport-on-Craig, Kirkintilloch, Ohio, New York, Inverness-shire, Blair Atholl, Mathie

Offline barryd

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #16 on: Friday 04 November 11 02:34 GMT (UK) »
His death seems to have been registered in Leeds. John Dunsmore, aged 68, Free BMD, Dec Qtr. 1901, Leeds Registration District.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: no death cert for John Dunsmore ca 1903
« Reply #17 on: Friday 04 November 11 10:28 GMT (UK) »
Thus the term "probate" has some standing in Scottish law

Only to the extent of accepting that 'probate' in English Law is the equivalent to 'confirmation', and vice versa, which is a sensible compromise to avoid the need for a duplicate procedure when someone dies owning property in both jurisdictions. The extract you cite from the site I cited makes it clear that an English probate has to be re-sealed in Scotland to be valid as a confirmation, and a Scottish confirmation has to be re-sealed in England to be valid as English probate. I said that the term 'probate' has no meaning in Scots Law, and I stick to that.

I know nothing about the comparable situation in the USA. Please forgive me for not talking about what I don't know about.

Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith