Author Topic: dating help please  (Read 2153 times)

Offline RogerM9

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dating help please
« on: Tuesday 19 July 11 23:51 BST (UK) »
We have agreed to disagree about who this might be in our family.  One view is that it is Thomas Middleton, who would be my great great grandfather 1805 - 1873 who was a charcoal burner from West Malling, Kent. My view is that it cannot be because the photo looks to be much later than that.  The man in the photo cannot be older than about 45 and that cannot be a 1850 photo. Also those hands don't look like those of a manual labourer, and given that photographs would have been expensive, would a charcoal burner have been able to afford them?

Does anyone know when the photographer  -  David Nottle  -  was active?  To me the clothes look late Victorian.  Can anyone offer a more accurate date?

Middleton in Kent and Bournemouth, Bigley in Athlone, Heeley in Chesterfield, Morey, Serjeant, and Earle  -  all in Devon, Hart in London

Offline Seoras

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 00:31 BST (UK) »
I could be wrong Roger,but isn't he wearing a clerical dog collar.D.Nottle is in the 1903 directory for Beckenham as a photographer.Can you post the back as that would help to date it.
SCOTLAND: Wardlaw Steen/Stein Tweedie McBride McEwan Pate/Peat Brown Somerville Bishop Farier/Ferrier Wood  Torrance Gibb Ross Dunlop Downs Richardson Ramsey Story Snaddon/Sneddon Auld Allan McLean McInnes Mason Law Lawson Kerr Cockburn Christie Ballingall Wardrope Weir Wallace Scott.
IRELAND: Welsh Clifford Lee Allingham Keane Dale Robinson Greer McVey Bingham Skelton Carson Broomfield Clark McEwan/McKeown McCreary McLaughlan.
YORKSHIRE: Cudworth Smith Cope Coulton Hainsworth

Offline Seoras

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 00:47 BST (UK) »
David Nottle was born in 1845 in Pimlico.In 1871 he is a stationer.In 1881 he is at 3 Clifton Terrace,Beckenham as a bookseller.In 1891 he is a photographer and stationer with his daughters Edith and Rosetta working as assistants. So I would say the photo has to be after 1881 and probably nearer 1890 or thereabouts.
SCOTLAND: Wardlaw Steen/Stein Tweedie McBride McEwan Pate/Peat Brown Somerville Bishop Farier/Ferrier Wood  Torrance Gibb Ross Dunlop Downs Richardson Ramsey Story Snaddon/Sneddon Auld Allan McLean McInnes Mason Law Lawson Kerr Cockburn Christie Ballingall Wardrope Weir Wallace Scott.
IRELAND: Welsh Clifford Lee Allingham Keane Dale Robinson Greer McVey Bingham Skelton Carson Broomfield Clark McEwan/McKeown McCreary McLaughlan.
YORKSHIRE: Cudworth Smith Cope Coulton Hainsworth


Online jim1

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 01:29 BST (UK) »
agree with George,this chap is a vicar.The cardstock looks 1880's from the front but we would have a better idea if we could see the back.

jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Offline RogerM9

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 10:01 BST (UK) »
David Nottle was born in 1845 in Pimlico.In 1871 he is a stationer.In 1881 he is at 3 Clifton Terrace, Beckenham as a bookseller.  In 1891 he is a photographer and stationer with his daughters Edith and Rosetta working as assistants. So I would say the photo has to be after 1881 and probably nearer 1890 or thereabouts.

Thanks.  that's really interesting, and bears out my "gut feel" about the photo.   I don't know of any clergymen in the family  -  that's another line to follow.  I did wonder about the apparant dog-collar, but I also thought that was a style sometimes used in either late Victorian or early Edwardian times?

I don't have immediate access to the photo as it belongs to a cousin, but I'll scan the back sometime and reactivate this post when I have it.  Many thanks.
Middleton in Kent and Bournemouth, Bigley in Athlone, Heeley in Chesterfield, Morey, Serjeant, and Earle  -  all in Devon, Hart in London

Offline Treetotal

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 20 July 11 11:23 BST (UK) »
I have seen a photo of this type of outfit before and the owner said he wasn't a Vicar  :-\...I think it belonged to Caroline.
Carol
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Offline RogerM9

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 05 July 20 14:03 BST (UK) »
Another photo has come to light which puts the cat amongst the pigeons. This one is almost certainly my great grandfather, George Middleton -  1845-1932, as we can match his appearance in other, later, family photos,  and if we assume that he was aged about 16 or 17 in the photo, that would date it to about 1862.  The photographer is the same as in the photo above  -  D.Nottle, Beckenham. Is it assuming too much that as the photos have come down the family together, the photos were taken at the same sitting? If so, who paid? The gentleman at the top, who if he was George's father, Thomas, would have been in his mid 50's?  Sadly I don't have access to the backs of the photos at the moment.   
Middleton in Kent and Bournemouth, Bigley in Athlone, Heeley in Chesterfield, Morey, Serjeant, and Earle  -  all in Devon, Hart in London

Online jim1

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 05 July 20 14:24 BST (UK) »
Much later than 1862 I'm afraid. 1880's/1890's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Chris Doran

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Re: dating help please
« Reply #8 on: Monday 13 July 20 23:17 BST (UK) »
David Nottle is first described as a photographer in this advert in a Beckenham directory dated 1885. 3 Clifton Terrace was renumbered into Beckenham High Street, as No 17, around 1890, so sight of the backs may help.  D Nottle last appears in a 1914 directory and in 1916 Frederick Ingham has the photographer's business at No 17.
Researching Penge, Anerley, (incuding the Crystal Palace) and neighbouring parts of Beckenham, currently in London (Bromley), formerly Surrey and/or Kent.