dating help please

[RogerM9]

We have agreed to disagree about who this might be in our family.  One view is that it is Thomas Middleton, who would be my great great grandfather 1805 - 1873 who was a charcoal burner from West Malling, Kent. My view is that it cannot be because the photo looks to be much later than that.  The man in the photo cannot be older than about 45 and that cannot be a 1850 photo. Also those hands don't look like those of a manual labourer, and given that photographs would have been expensive, would a charcoal burner have been able to afford them?

Does anyone know when the photographer  -  David Nottle  -  was active?  To me the clothes look late Victorian.  Can anyone offer a more accurate date?

[Seoras]

I could be wrong Roger,but isn't he wearing a clerical dog collar.D.Nottle is in the 1903 directory for Beckenham as a photographer.Can you post the back as that would help to date it.

[Seoras]

David Nottle was born in 1845 in Pimlico.In 1871 he is a stationer.In 1881 he is at 3 Clifton Terrace,Beckenham as a bookseller.In 1891 he is a photographer and stationer with his daughters Edith and Rosetta working as assistants. So I would say the photo has to be after 1881 and probably nearer 1890 or thereabouts.

[jim1]

agree with George,this chap is a vicar.The cardstock looks 1880's from the front but we would have a better idea if we could see the back.

jim

[RogerM9]

David Nottle was born in 1845 in Pimlico.In 1871 he is a stationer.In 1881 he is at 3 Clifton Terrace, Beckenham as a bookseller.  In 1891 he is a photographer and stationer with his daughters Edith and Rosetta working as assistants. So I would say the photo has to be after 1881 and probably nearer 1890 or thereabouts.

Thanks.  that's really interesting, and bears out my "gut feel" about the photo.   I don't know of any clergymen in the family  -  that's another line to follow.  I did wonder about the apparant dog-collar, but I also thought that was a style sometimes used in either late Victorian or early Edwardian times?

I don't have immediate access to the photo as it belongs to a cousin, but I'll scan the back sometime and reactivate this post when I have it.  Many thanks.

[Treetotal]

I have seen a photo of this type of outfit before and the owner said he wasn't a Vicar  ...I think it belonged to Caroline.
Carol

[RogerM9]

Another photo has come to light which puts the cat amongst the pigeons. This one is almost certainly my great grandfather, George Middleton -  1845-1932, as we can match his appearance in other, later, family photos,  and if we assume that he was aged about 16 or 17 in the photo, that would date it to about 1862.  The photographer is the same as in the photo above  -  D.Nottle, Beckenham. Is it assuming too much that as the photos have come down the family together, the photos were taken at the same sitting? If so, who paid? The gentleman at the top, who if he was George's father, Thomas, would have been in his mid 50's?  Sadly I don't have access to the backs of the photos at the moment.   

[jim1]

Much later than 1862 I'm afraid. 1880's/1890's.

[Chris Doran]

David Nottle is first described as a photographer in this advert in a Beckenham directory dated 1885. 3 Clifton Terrace was renumbered into Beckenham High Street, as No 17, around 1890, so sight of the backs may help.  D Nottle last appears in a 1914 directory and in 1916 Frederick Ingham has the photographer's business at No 17.