Author Topic: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks  (Read 27367 times)

Offline majm

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #9 on: Friday 29 July 11 11:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you Judith (oops) and Thank you Sue,  for your kind words.

I think anyone using the ONLINE index to then order certificates or transcripts based on NSW BDM records can be confused by the following statement on the NSW BDM website.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm

I quote the paragaph

"As only limited information is available to view online, you have the option to purchase a Family History Certificate for all available information."

I think it should read (or similar)

"As only limited information is available to view online, you have the option to purchase a Family History Certificate for the limited information that is held by this office"

Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #10 on: Friday 29 July 11 11:16 BST (UK) »
I often wonder how many RChatters use the Resources Boards ...  :'(

I typed it up in a rush, after posting on the following thread

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546582.0.html

I have no idea how often I have posted similar replies on threads here on the Aussie Board, or on other RChat Boards, but there have been quite a few posts from me on the theme.

PS, there's probably similar ways to find the elusive information in each of the other states or territories, however, with my own tree being so NSW based basically from the first years of colonial administration, I have no practice experience apart from NSW researching.

Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #11 on: Friday 29 July 11 12:19 BST (UK) »
I have also found NSW Deceased Estates/Intestate Estates/Probate Packets (files addressing  the administration of a deceased personís affairs) and NSW Divorce papers (including judicial separation) files  to be  good places to find BDM certificates, particularly marriage certificates. 

Simply put, marriage certificates (sometimes fully certified by NSW BDM  were sometimes lodged with the NSW Supreme Court as evidence in court proceedings.  And you can have the added confidence of knowing with greater certainty  that certificate pertains to that person ! 

Of course not all files contain those details, as often the Supreme Court culled their files before lodging them with the NSW SRO. And, of course, not all wills or intestacies needed to be sent to Probate. BUT ....   
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-online  and also the Archives Investigator for many of the Probates (it is an on-going project).   

But do also read through the Guides & Finding Aids, Archives in Brief, these contain a great depth of information too

Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #12 on: Friday 29 July 11 15:03 BST (UK) »
Some detailed information, hopefully to explain what should be in the various blank spots.

The elusive missing details would be those from columns 5, 7, 9, 10 of the NSWBDM certificates.

Column 5 gives the Birth places for the groom and the bride, Note, NSW was often recorded as NS Wales.† This is not Wales, as in the United Kingdom.† It is definitely the then usual abbreviation for New South Wales.†

Column 7 gives the then ages of the groom and bride† (note if bride was not yet 21 years, then the name of the person giving consent should appear in the section giving details of the church in which the marriage was celebrated, and thus may be included in certificates that have not yet been reconciled).

Column 9 gives Fatherís name, Motherís name and maiden surname (groomís father, following by groomís mother, then brideís father and followed by brideís mother)

Column 10 gives† : Fatherís occupation (groomís father shows above brideís father) and if either fatherís were deceased, this is often noted too.

If the NSW BDM has completed the Reconciliation process for those marriages 1856-1895, then the certified copy (from NSW BDM) shows in the far right lower column:† ďParticulars in Columns 5, 7, 9, 10 obtained from Church Register (and the particular number) and then the signature of the clerk at the Registrar Generalís office, with initials from various other clerks who have checked each particular.† Then the date of that reconciliation and various clerical numberings.....

So the elusive blanks are of course the ones that help advance family history researchings.... and hopefully explain my concerns re the wording of that paragraph on the NSW BDM website re the "all available information" ....† ;)

"As only limited information is available to view online, you have the option to purchase a Family History Certificate for all available information."

Cheers,† JM
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Offline Mary from Italy

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 30 July 11 12:40 BST (UK) »
Can anyone clarify something: when we order a transcription from an authorised agent, do they normally check the parish records and add this missing information, or merely transcribe what would be on an official certificate?
Cassidy (Drogheda, Ireland and Sydney, NSW); Chester (Carleton-in-Craven and Calton, Yorks); Cockshott (Bradley and Silsden, Yorks); Garner (Warwickshire); Grimshaw (Manchester, Lancs, Bradford, Yorks and Sydney, NSW); (Inman (Bradford, Yorks, Sydney and Armidale, NSW); Mallet (Lichfield, Staffs); North (Rothley, Leics); Pool (Ibstock and Leicester, Leics); Slingsby (Bulkington, Warks); Sparkes (Fillongley, Warks and Whittington, Staffs); Throup (Bradley, Silsden and Gargrave, Yorks)

Offline majm

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 31 July 11 02:10 BST (UK) »
Can anyone clarify something: when we order a transcription from an authorised agent, do they normally check the parish records and add this missing information, or merely transcribe what would be on an official certificate?

Hi there,†

When you order an official transcription from an offical transcription agent you are expecting to receive an official transcription of the NSW BDM records.

As far as I am aware, the NSW BDM does not have the authority to authorise anyone to transcribe any church records at all, and nor does any church have the authority to authorise anyone to transcribe NSW BDM records.† That "church v state" was the very thrust of one of the tenets of the separation of church and state in the debates that led up to the establishment of the NSW BDM Registrar Generals office.†

NSW BDM online information re Transcription Agents
† †
" Option 3: Transcription Agents
The Registry has accredited Transcription Agents who are able to provide genealogists with full transcriptions, partial transcriptions or verification of certain fields of a birth, death or marriage record.

Transcription Agents are particularly useful when you do not need full-certified copies of a birth, death or marriage certificate but just want the information in order to be able to continue your research."

 http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent

At that link you will find details of how to contact the official transcription agents.  I am sure each organisation will tell you that their licence to transcribe  the NSW BDM record has no connection at all with any other transciption service they may also offer.   
 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline tropicalj

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 31 July 11 03:39 BST (UK) »
Well detailed and lengthy account.

I have been telling people  they same thing for a while now  ;D

I experienced this first hand when I received a copy of my ggparents marriage in NSW.  Their parents names were blank in fact very little info on  the marriage certificate copy at all.

However the Church were they were married was detailed.  It was  St Columbus's Church in Cootamundra.  the marriage was according to the rites of the Roman Catholic Church

So  on line I went to find  the church,  no luck,  So I found the number for the Catholic Diocese and phoned. 
After explaining  my problem  the wonderfull lady said" Oh we have all those records here in a box on  the top shelf"  So  off she went and brough it back  and said "Yes it has parents names detailed" including  the mother's maiden names"  However it did not list the father's occupation.
She also told me that if I was ever in Coota to call on and I could view the original myself.

Jenn





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Offline SherlockBones

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 31 July 11 07:28 BST (UK) »
An excellent post JM. Well done. Like others have said I too have had first hand experience. From a marriage certificate that had nothing more than the parties names, I tracked down the parish and finally received all the info I needed including their occupations, their parents names and occupations etc. Practically everything I needed.

Again, well done!

Jon
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Offline Mary from Italy

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Re: NSW historic marriage certificates with blanks
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 31 July 11 13:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks, JM - I assumed that would be the case, but I thought it was worth checking.

Mary
Cassidy (Drogheda, Ireland and Sydney, NSW); Chester (Carleton-in-Craven and Calton, Yorks); Cockshott (Bradley and Silsden, Yorks); Garner (Warwickshire); Grimshaw (Manchester, Lancs, Bradford, Yorks and Sydney, NSW); (Inman (Bradford, Yorks, Sydney and Armidale, NSW); Mallet (Lichfield, Staffs); North (Rothley, Leics); Pool (Ibstock and Leicester, Leics); Slingsby (Bulkington, Warks); Sparkes (Fillongley, Warks and Whittington, Staffs); Throup (Bradley, Silsden and Gargrave, Yorks)