Author Topic: Elephant and Castle, Halton  (Read 5441 times)

Offline Poppyjoey

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Elephant and Castle, Halton
« on: Monday 15 August 11 18:41 BST (UK) »
Hi,

My  5 x Great Grandfather, James Finch,  was an ale house keeper at the Elephant and Castle in Halton - there is a trade directory entry for 1822/3.

I cannot find anything for the Elephant and Castle Pub or Inn on google and wondered if anyone can help.

Thank you
Julie
Abercrombie & Bartlet -  Berkshire
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Offline JDGen

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 August 11 09:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Julie,

I couldn't find anything on the Elephant and Castle either but maybe this will help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halton,_Cheshire

This mentions a pub called the Castle Hotel - could it be the one you are looking for?

Jean
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett
DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor)
HRT: Gurney
HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St)
LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale)
NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering)
YKS: Scott(Clapham)

Offline Poppyjoey

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 August 11 10:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Jean,

Thanks very much for that. I had found a Castle Hotel in Halton, but the trade directory entry clearly says Elephant and Castle. Perhaps for some reason it was known as that but the official name was the Castle Hotel.....

Regards
Julie
Abercrombie & Bartlet -  Berkshire
Collinge - Lancs
Finch - Cheshire
Orwin - Derbyshire
Simpson - Shropshire
Morgans - Montgomeryshire
McCartney - Ayrshire
Pursell - Argyll
Ramsay - Argyll
Thomson - Argyll
Hutchinson - Cheshire
Laville - Warwickshire
Rea - Warwickshire
Drake - Kirkheaton
Brook - Kirkheaton
Humpleby - Kirkheaton

Offline JDGen

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 August 11 10:19 BST (UK) »
It could be that it changed over time - have you tried looking at later directories to see what is there?

www.historicaldirectories.org

and some published by Cheshire Records Office:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,497342.msg2202698.html#msg2202698

Jean
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett
DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor)
HRT: Gurney
HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St)
LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale)
NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering)
YKS: Scott(Clapham)


Offline Poppyjoey

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 August 11 11:12 BST (UK) »
Jean,

Those links are great thanks. The only reference I can find refers to the Castle Hotel, but I will save the links as there are other things I'll be looking up.

Thank you
Julie

Abercrombie & Bartlet -  Berkshire
Collinge - Lancs
Finch - Cheshire
Orwin - Derbyshire
Simpson - Shropshire
Morgans - Montgomeryshire
McCartney - Ayrshire
Pursell - Argyll
Ramsay - Argyll
Thomson - Argyll
Hutchinson - Cheshire
Laville - Warwickshire
Rea - Warwickshire
Drake - Kirkheaton
Brook - Kirkheaton
Humpleby - Kirkheaton

Offline heletune

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 December 11 04:58 GMT (UK) »
Julie,

The Elephant and Castle was a different establishment to the Castle Hotel. William Dearden is listed as the tenant of an establishment bearing this name on the 1845 tithe appointments. The plot is located more-or-less opposite Halton Rectory on the Castle Road which actually leads to the Castle Hotel. The site of this plot is currently occupied by a residential dwelling called Hill House which is 5 minutes walk away from where I live. This was supposedly the site of a tavern as far back as the 17th century, however: the current building appears to have been either completely rebuilt or extensively re-modelled towards the end of the 19th Century (it is not a listed building, not yet anyway)

William Dearden (aka Dierden) vacated the premises by 1857 according to the county electoral rolls and the building seems to have been renamed "Halton Hill" based on the predictable schedule logic of Castle Road. This is occupied by George Burkett, a retired draper from Warrington on the 1861 and 1871. The sign of "Elephant and Castle" is subsequently used for beer houses in at least two other locations in the village up to the 1911 census.

Hope this helps,

Regards and happy hunting
Chris
Fielding - Lancs
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Offline Poppyjoey

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 December 11 10:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for this information. What a pity the original building seems to have gone. James Finch died in 1828, so William Dearden couldn't have taken over the tenacy from him.

I know James's grandson also James born Halton 1827 became a brewer too, in Manchester, but I haven't been able find out if his son Thomas Finch born Halton 1794 was a brewer, or if he took over the Elephant and Castle from his father. So far, I can't find any of them in the 1841 census, so, a lot more delving to do....

Again, thanks for your posting.

Julie
Abercrombie & Bartlet -  Berkshire
Collinge - Lancs
Finch - Cheshire
Orwin - Derbyshire
Simpson - Shropshire
Morgans - Montgomeryshire
McCartney - Ayrshire
Pursell - Argyll
Ramsay - Argyll
Thomson - Argyll
Hutchinson - Cheshire
Laville - Warwickshire
Rea - Warwickshire
Drake - Kirkheaton
Brook - Kirkheaton
Humpleby - Kirkheaton

Offline heletune

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 December 11 18:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Julie,

You're welcome and I am glad that the information is of some use to you. I wouldn't be so sure that the building has been completely replaced since your ancestor was the proprietor but it has certainly seen several phases of (re) development judging by the slightly different types of brick fabric used in the present construction. The present building does follow the basic plan form of the 1845 tithe map although dating this back to the 17th century would be somewhat optimistic given that all of the surviving buildings from that period in the village are constructed from dressed sandstone blocks; most likely the abundance of spoil from the slighting of Halton Castle during the civil war.

You may find searching through the DBN series of documents at the Cheshire Archives relating to the Brooke estate, the manorial seat that the time you are interested in may yield some more evidence of the Finch family in Halton. For instance I have found the following on cursory glance:

- An invoice (DBN/D/18B3/12 ) made out by James Finch to Sir Richard Brooke dated 1815: for 2 bottles of gin (5/-) and ale (10/-)

- He also appears on a lease document from 1806 (DBN/D/1/12-13)  although the exact details of the holding are not given.

There are also a couple of references in Pigots:

- 1828/9: James Finch is listed as the proprietor of the White Hart in Halton (same pub or name change??)

- 1834: William Mounfield is listed as the proprietor of the Elephant and Castle in Halton

Hope this helps further

cheers for now
Chris
Fielding - Lancs
Mutch - Lancs
Calvert - Lincs
Fitzsimmons - Down
Cummins - Down
McMullen - Down
Cowley - Leinster
Meyrick - Salop

Offline Poppyjoey

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Re: Elephant and Castle, Halton
« Reply #8 on: Friday 30 December 11 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

Thanks for that.

Obviously you're well informed about the history of Halton. I wouldn't have known about Sir Richard Brooke. There seems to be a lot of information held in the Cheshire Archives which you have pointed me to. I'm looking through them now. I'm amazed you found what you did on cursory glance - you clearly know what to look for! I'm very grateful for this.

 I have his will giving his death as 17.2.1828. Unfortunately, the will states he is as ale-house keeper, but there is no mention of where.

I have found another son for James Finch - baptised as James in Halton 1802 - I would think the Pagots entry relates to him as his father James died Feb 1828.

Best wishes
Julie



Abercrombie & Bartlet -  Berkshire
Collinge - Lancs
Finch - Cheshire
Orwin - Derbyshire
Simpson - Shropshire
Morgans - Montgomeryshire
McCartney - Ayrshire
Pursell - Argyll
Ramsay - Argyll
Thomson - Argyll
Hutchinson - Cheshire
Laville - Warwickshire
Rea - Warwickshire
Drake - Kirkheaton
Brook - Kirkheaton
Humpleby - Kirkheaton