Edith May CROOK (born WYATT) - COMPLETED

[majm]

Hi JM,

I have seen the death notice for Eliza Victoria (using trove).  As it only mentions Mr and Mrs R J Crook, I cannot be certain if it is referring to Edith or to Robert's second wife.

Cheers, Jenny.

Sorry, but from Robert and his second wife's d.c. you indicate their marriage year 1943...

Cheers,  JM

[jenster]

There is a WW1 record .....Letters about replacing lost medals.
In Aug 1940 ....has address 59 Hannam St Arncliffe, next of kin is wife E M Crook, .....?.

And at page 14 (of 27) Edith May Crook's address was changed to Barella St Wollongong in 1917 

Cheers,  JM

While Robert was on active service, Edith moved to Wollongong.  On his return they moved to Arncliffe.

Hi JM,

I have seen the death notice for Eliza Victoria (using trove).  As it only mentions Mr and Mrs R J Crook, I cannot be certain if it is referring to Edith or to Robert's second wife.

Cheers, Jenny.

Sorry, but from Robert and his second wife's d.c. you indicate their marriage year 1943...

Cheers,  JM

The marriage date is a guess-timate on my part as the 1943 electoral roll has them living at the same address. 

[majm]

Hi there,

Have you had contact with descendants of Robert's siblings at all, particularly with the family mentioned in the Jan 1938 cutting, where Eliza Victoria's funeral departed from ...  I am speculating that that particular family may have oral history knowledge at least as to if Robert was accompanied by Edith rather than by Dawn to that funeral.  Perhaps someone has kept the sympathy cards addressed to Robert and Edith, perhaps a family member has an attendence record of who was at the service. 

Cheers, JM

[wivenhoe]

"..In Aug 1940 James William has address 59 Hannam St Arncliffe, next of kin is wife E M Crook, Redfern..different residences so maybe they were estranged then?."


This is on page 19 of 27 in the war record, so Edith is alive and living in Redfern in 1940.

Which one died first - Robert James or Dawn?

Is this possible -
Sweden refers to Dawn Paulene Seabournn, who is born in Sweden.

On a death certificate, hers or Robert's, the place of birth is mistakenly recorded as place of marriage.

This would be continued with the next death certificate, with information taken from the earlier certificate, which the informant is using as reference.

Can you give all the details on the death certificates that you have for

Robert James Crook
Dawn Paulene Crook

all the details please including informants, death place, burial place etc.
Where it might identify living sons/daughters you could just indicate age and gender.

What are names for Dawn's parents.?

It is just not possible that Robert James Crook could travel from Australia to Sweden at the height of WW11, marry and return to Australia.

You needed a travel pass and a really good reason to travel interstate by train.

If they needed to fabricate a marriage place, another state would do as well.

[jenster]

This is on page 19 of 27 in the war record, so Edith is alive and living in Redfern in 1940.
>>This address refers to nok and address at time of enlistment, which was Oct 1916 and the address is correct for that year.

Which one died first - Robert James or Dawn?
>>Robert James died first with Dawn as the informant.  The place of birth for Robert is correct on his d.c.  Place of marriage is shown as Sweden.  Previous marriage and children are not listed on Robert's d.c.

What are names for Dawn's parents.?
>>Unknown

It is just not possible that Robert James Crook could travel from Australia to Sweden at the height of WW11, marry and return to Australia.
>>Totally agree.

[majm]

Which one died first - Robert James or Dawn?
Robert James died first with Dawn as the informant.  The place of birth for Robert is correct on his d.c.  Place of marriage is shown as Sweden.  Previous marriage and children are not listed on Robert's d.c.

It seems to me that likely that the children of Robert's marriage to Edith were estranged from Robert and Dawn... and thus those children were raised by Edith, and that those children, or their children (ie Edith's grandchildren) could well remember when she died.  Were those children married by 1937?

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

The address as per enlistment papers (page 1) for his n o k shows
(wife) E M Crook
55 Walker St
Waterloo Sydney.

That is altered (presume by Base Records Office)
Edith May Cook (sic)
Barella St
Wollongong

I think the address on the Stat Dec at page 19, while it ought to be the address at enlistment, could well be her address in 1940 when he signed that, or at least it was her address in Dec 1931 when his medals were found and the CPS at the Court House at Redfern tried to find their owner (around pg 20). 

I cannot find on those WWI images where his address at enlistment was Redfern, and I cannot find on the pre 1930 rolls where his address was Redfern.  I cannot identify him in my copies of the Sands Directories either.

EDIT TO ADD, page 8, gives his address at enlistment as 55 Walker St Waterloo, Sydney NSW, age 31 years 10 months, married. (as at 23 Oct 1916)

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi,

Some more thoughts and a couple more questions, (perhaps rhetorical, but offered anyways  )...

Re info on NSW m.c. for Edith’s children.  I explain ... I am currently looking at a NSW m.c. from 1930’s.  The bride’s mother’s details show as (names altered, but I hope I am explaining OK) Mary White, laterly Brown, formerly Jones, nee Smith.  (bride’s father was Jones, deceased).

  So, on the m.c.s for Edith’s children, How is Edith notated please?.

Re electoral rolls ... I explain ....I have had a close look at the NSW ER 1913, for the Electorate of Redfern, polling place Redfern.  I cannot find either Robert or Edith there.  I can see others (different surnames) in Walker St, Waterloo in that electorate, but none surnamed Crook, and of course it was not yet compulsory to vote.

  So, where was the child born who is indexed on the NSW BDM online as born 1906 to Robert J and Edith M?
  Or perhaps more importantly, where were each of the children married?

If in NSW, then perhaps the electoral rolls held by the NSW State Library may help you to find if Edith was living nearby at the times her children were marrying.  The ERs pre computerisation of the rolls were printed off into each electorate and then within the electorate by surname.  It would be easier (but still time consuming) to look through one particular electorate rather than the entire state of NSW to find someone with the same address.

Many of the historic electoral rolls are held at the State Library of NSW, Family History Section, Macquarie St, Sydney.   From the NSW SRO’s online Archives In Brief 5 - Electoral rolls I read
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0f35/

“Any research into electoral rolls should take into account the fact that they were not updated every year, but names are listed alphabetically by division until 1990. After 1990 it is possible to obtain a listing that is alphabetical by state.”

Finally, re Sweden ... this could well be way off track, but I noticed on the NSW SRO index that a Charles CROOK, born SWEDEN, was naturalised, but that was back in 5 May 1875 ...

Fingers crossed this is helpful.

Cheers,  JM

[jenster]

Hi JM,

You have provided some really good advice for me to ponder, thank you 

Both children were married in Wollongong.  And going back through certificates I notice the d.c. for Edith's mother says "Late of Wollongong" - something I had missed earlier

I need to go back to NSW State Library to check Wollongong electoral rolls.  The reference section of the SL has been closed for renovation, but reopens next week. 

I will also research the naturalised Charles Crook to see if there is a family connection.

Thanks once again to everyone who responded, you have provided some very good tips for me to follow-up.

Cheers, Jenny.