Author Topic: JOHN HOWELL  (Read 13004 times)

Offline elenaH

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Re: JOHN HOWELL
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 11 April 13 04:44 BST (UK) »
John HOWELL
Ann WALTERS
25 October 1831, Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Trish :)
[/quote]
Marriage of John Howell, bachelor, and Ann Walters, spinster, on 25 Oct 1831, in the Parish of Swansea. Married by Banns, both of the Parish, in the presence of  James Evans and William Davies. Both Bride and Groom signed the register.
P.S. Elena - Welcome to Rootschat!  :)
[/quote]

Thank you very much Morganlllan!  I was sent the photocopy of the original page by one very kind lady  :)
William Davies is a registrar or a clerk  as his name is present on all records on the page. And, unfortunately, "James Evans" is a very common name to help with the research...

After a few months of trying to find John Howell through all available internet resources I believe that John Howell senior either died before 1841 census or changed his profession and/or the town, or even moved to England...

Theoretically, wheelwrights always worked together with blacksmiths, by the middle of the 19th century wooden/metal wheels gradually were replaced by "all metal" wheels,  so wheelwrights might lost their businesses ( a guess only). They might (again  a guess) become blacksmiths ( there is John Howell, the blacksmith,  in Glamorgan at the that time, in Bryn Maer - 1844 directory), farmers, inn/tavern keepers, butchers (???) who knows...

Or they could  move to other places... we do not know any names of John's siblings...We can only guess that Ann and John should be born not later than 1813 as unlikely that they were younger than 18 at the time of her marriage. Therefore all Anns and Johns younger than that- are wrong...

John could  also remarry if Ann died before him...

I also read that by the middle of 19th century Cardiff, as a port and an industrial centre, surpassed Swansea, so John (or his unknown sons and grandsons) could relocate to Cardiff, for example...There is "John Howell & sons" , wheelwright, coach builder and timber merchant  in Cardiff  (1880-1915)...   
Hopefully somebody has an answer to this puzzle :-)
Thank you once more
Elena

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Offline judy55

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Re: JOHN HOWELL
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 11 April 13 07:43 BST (UK) »
Hello Judy,

Have you found more information about Howells' since your last post?
Thank you
Elena

No Elena.
Still checking out all the references and suggestions from this site. Perhaps John wasn't born in 1838 like we all think. My Mum's cousin told me once that he came to Australia with a friend (male) about 1850's on a ship named "Black Swan".  I found the ship mentioned but not in that time frame and no John Howell as passenger.  :(.     
Hopefully one day the "brick Wall" will fall down!!!
Judy
Gillies and McPhie  - Scotland, Australia, New Zealand
Webb  - Ireland, Australia, New Zealand
Howell -  Wales

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Offline elenaH

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Re: JOHN HOWELL
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 11 April 13 10:36 BST (UK) »
Quote
No Elena.
Still checking out all the references and suggestions from this site. Perhaps John wasn't born in 1838 like we all think. My Mum's cousin told me once that he came to Australia with a friend (male) about 1850's on a ship named "Black Swan".  I found the ship mentioned but not in that time frame and no John Howell as passenger.  :(.     
Hopefully one day the "brick Wall" will fall down!!!
Judy
Hi Judy,
There are a lot of mistakes in his daughter's Jane Howell husband's William Clinch death certificate, they could be also in John Howell's Death certificate, who knows...

I looked through passenger records ...I believe (it does not mean that it is true) that John might come to Australia on Sandalha in 1855

John Howell
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1839
Age:   17
Arrival Date:   18 Sep 1856
Arrival Port:   Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port:   Liverpool
Ship:   Saldanha
Nationality:   English...

That is the only John Howell I found that arrived 30 years before 1885, as stated in his death certificate... His nationality though was English, not Welsh...

Trade people began to move between places in 19th century and if John Howell  junior can go to Australia his father can move his family from England to Wales and back, following job opportunities...

When I looked at Black Swan movements in 1855-1856, I noticed that it was sailing along Australian mainland's coast and  from Australian mainland to  Tasmania and back...It did not go to UK...Could it be that John Howell and his friend changed ships to go to a particular place in Australia or Tasmania?   

 I place a note a few months ago on Howells' tree that "in 1855 only a few ships arrived from UK from which passengers were taken by Black Swan: Ben Nevis, Champion of the Seas, James Baines, Marco Polo, Solway  .  There were no John Howell among them... Black Swan was a local Australian ship, sailing from Brisbane, to Sydney, Lancestorn, etc". I have not checked records for Black Swan  for 1856 ...do not remember why now , sorry, maybe I did not find them???

Saldalha arrived in Melbourne, they might wanted to go to SA or NSW  ot some other place they have heard of or to some friends or relatives they knew (a guess again) . It is pretty brave to arrive to another country on the other side of the globe without having anyone here...Something or somebody could had tempted them to get here...

Ann Waters married John Howell/s in 1831, there should be older siblings of the same marriage born between 1832-1837 that may had stayed in UK ???

I found a family of Howells, the wheelwrights from Pendelton, Lancashire;  17 Sept  1837 George Howell, the wheelwright, widower, married Elizabeth Ogden, widow , St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire; his father is mentioned as John Howell, the wheelwright from Pendelton, Salford, Lancashire...He is the only "early" John Howell, the wheelwright that is mentioned in available to me documents...Bride's father was John Sheldon...

There may be some documents we do not have access to yet... that will have John Howell, the wheelwright, living closer to Swansea in 1831-1838.

Hope we will find them  :)

Elena

Offline Muggins

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Re: JOHN HOWELL
« Reply #30 on: Monday 19 May 14 15:06 BST (UK) »
Hi there - Don't know if this is helpful or just introducing another complication, but I've been researching the name Buckney, and I know that in the 1851 census (Pembrokeshire), my g-g-g-grandparents George and Ann Buckney are living with their daughter Lettice (my g-g-grandmother, b. 1845), along with her 2 older half-brothers - John and Benjamin HOWELLS. For some reason I have only the birth date for Benjamin (1839, in Salford), but you can check the census. George's wife Ann (Howells?) was born in Pembrokeshire in 1805. Most likely not the same Ann or John Howells that you're looking for, but thought I'd mention it...

Muggins
Plymouth/Devon - Lishmund, Lutley, Horne and Buckney;
Glasgow/London - Currie;
Shropshire - Jenks;
Ireland (Co. Cork) - Burke