Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?

[Kylie B]

Hoping someone might have some inspiration on this one...!!

I have an Esther Taylor- born circa 1859 in Mille near Narrabri NSW
She married George Creighton in Coonamble in 1875- no ages recorded on marriage, but if her age on her children's birth is correct, she was a minor (16yrs old).

Esther and George had 5 children- all born in Coonamble- George Hector, Charles Richard, Edith, Emily Jane and Sarah.

George was a sawyer, apparently away from home with work a lot, and died in 1893 in Toowoomba QLD.

I have now found records of the children which shed a bit more light on the family...In May 1888, George Hector was arrested for stealing. According to his record, he was un-educated, under-fed and un-cared for, roaming the streets. He was sent to an Industrial School (the ship the Vernon).  The other brother Charles was arrested shortly after- for roaming the streets un-cared for. He was too young to be sent to an industrial school, so became a Dependant child of the State, was taken into the Benevolent Society, and then fostered out. It would appear the same happened to Edith and Emily. I have not found any sign of Sarah.

Now on these children's records, they describe the parents as unfit and not loking after their children, being frequently drunk, and that Esther  Creighton was frequently in custody for larceny, drunkeness and prostitution. She was definately in custody in May 1888 for stealing- when her children were picked up off the streets of Coonamble.

I would like to find out what was Esther's story- her time in custody and what happened when she got out and found her children gone- where did she go and what did she do....but here is the hitch.

The records of Coonamble gaol (where I assume she was in custody) are held by the state correctional services, not the archives, and they require proof of relationship...which means 8 birth and marriage certificates.

SO!! I am wondeirng if there is any other way of finding out more about Esther's criminal activities, and what became of her after 1888???

Hoping for a bright idea as I am stuck!
Kylie

[majm]

Hi there,

Are you also looking for further information about Esther's parentage?  I presume it is not showing up on the m.c. ... I hope I am not side tracking you too much, but perhaps you may be interested in this thread that I prepared re the blanks on NSW m.c. for that era

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Also, if under 21 years of age she would have needed consent to marry, so perhaps a look at the attachment at reply #12 of this thread will also help... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,557757.10.html

I will pull my thinking cap down harder re the court records for Esther, I gather you have contacted the NSW State Records Office to check their holdings.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi,

Another thought .... those State Correctional Services records are more than 110 years old ... so there should not be any grounds for them to keep any restrictions on them.  The usual reason defaults back to privacy for the living person/s mentioned in them.   

From your profile I cannot see where you are based, but if you are a NSW resident, then you should contact your NSW member of Parliament and ask for their assistance in gaining access to the records.  It is usual to provide a reason for seeking access, and "private study for family history purposes" is not usually a valid reason.  A more suitable reason would be "these records were created more than 110 years ago, and thus any restrictions regarding the expectation to privacy for a living person has no possibility of being upheld.  The individual was committed in the 1880's, as an adult. "

Cheers,  JM

[sparrett]

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/

Both CHARLES RICHARD and GEORGE HECTOR seem to have ww1 digitised service histories.

Have you seen these and are they, in fact your people?

CHARLES did not have a successful stint in the Army and says he is without Next of Kin.  He nominated a friend in the NOK section.

The other, GEORGE, died of wounds. He nominted his wife ELLEN as NOK.

It seems the two, if it was them in these records, were estranged.

Sue

[Kylie B]

Hi JM and Sue
I don't really understand why the records are restricted- as you say they are 110 years old. And I did contact them and clarify the individual would most certainly no longer be living (nor indeed their immediate family)- but the Correctional Services responded that this was their policy and a search could not be undertaken without proof of relationship.....didn't think of local member. Might give that a try.

I have seen George Hector's WW1 record- I am not sure if the Charles is mine as the age would be about by about 5 years.

However, I suspect the children might have been estranged as you suggested...I think at least 3 of them were fostered out in 1888, and if they were not returned to their mother (which I am not sure if they were or not), then they may have lost contact with one another.  Interestingly, of the children, Edith lists her parents correctly on her marriage, Emily lists her father correctly but mother as someone else (hence my query of whether they returned to their mother or not), and George' s parents are listed incorrectly in the Army records.

JM- your post on the MC's was fascinating- thank you for that info! I have contacted the local parish in Coonamble in the past without success (they could not find the originals) as I am trying to find her parantage also,  so I might try to local family hisotry group in case they have transcribed them.

I don't know where else to go looking- Esther seems to vanish about the time of her children going into the benevolent society, and I cannot find sign of her pre her marriage,either.

Stuck!!
Kylie

[ennael]

There is the following possibilities, death registration, which you may already have.

18093/1950  RIPPINGALE  Edith
(CRIGHTON) 68 YRS 
Nth Sydney 
Chatswood

There is a corresponding marriage Registration:
10433/1911  RIPPINGALE  Walter H 
CREIGHTON Edith
Registered at Petersham

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm

[majm]

  possiblities .... RChat's NSW Resources Board has links to Sydney Benevolent Asylum covering admissions/discharges 1857-1900 and you can submit a request online at this link: http://www.sydneybenevolentasylum.com/

I have noticed several CREIGHTON children admitted around 2 June 1888, discharged just weeks later 12 July, eg Edith aged 10, Emily Jane aged 8 and Charles R aged 4.

Fingers crossed !   Alas, I did not spot any lass named Sarah.

Cheers,  JM

[Kylie B]

Hi Ennael and JM
That is the marriage and death of Edith Creighton, one of Esther and George's children. Her marriage lists her parents correctly as Esther and George and lists them both as deceased in 1911. I know George (father) died in 1893, but have not found Esther's death- still part of my search!!

I have copies of the Benevolent Society's records- they are the right children (minus Sarah who vanishes, and George Jnr who is admitted to the Vernon Industrial School). According to the Society's records, the 3 children were discharged to the boarding out officer of the State Dependant Childrens services. They tell me this means the children were fostered- sometimes temporarily, sometimes it turned out to be adoption (although this was not formally recognised as such at that time). They tell me the Dependant Children's registers at the State Archives will tell me more- who they were fostered to, if they returned to their natural parents, if they were apprenticed etc- but the archives do not offer a copy service unless I have the exact details (fische, page number etc), so I am stuck there too as I am not in Sydney. They did also say unless the children returned to their natural parents, there is often nothing about them in these records....so still may not tell me about Esther, but I do still want to track these records down somehow.

Have also tried TROVE incase there might be a mention in there....but no luck there either......
Kylie

[majm]

Oh    I was so hoping that at least the three who were discharged on the same day were being collected by a family member and the three were together for at least the rest of their childhood ...  It is not the easiest of tasks to find children fostered out in those decades.  I do know though, that most kept their birth surnames when with their "new" families, and that in some cases, various Lodges provided the "new" families with some support, including medical fees if attending Lodge Doctors etc.   Of course, the girls surnames would change on their marriages. 

Sarah is very elusive, do you have transcript of her 1887 bc ... #29332 if so, what month was she born  ...  I am thinking perhaps she was still being nursed by Esther in May 1888, so perhaps Sarah remained in Coonamble while Esther was incarcerated.   Perhaps Sarah may have been admitted to one of the Missions in the outback, their 'areas of responsibility' extended further than just the Aboriginal Protection Board functions....... Sometimes the children's records are findable in the depth of research done for the "Stolen Generation" reports.I found several of my very strict Protestant orphaned forebears out the Western Division of NSW, were admitted to the Sisters of Mercy orphanages in the 1880s.     
http://www.mercy.org.au/whoweare/iterator.cfm?loadref=53&idx=2 

I recall that the Dubbo family history group have fantastic archives covering much of the Western Divisons of NSW, particularly in the years before Federation. 

http://familyhistory.dubbo-nsw.info/index.php

Cheers,  JM